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"How Costly Is Too Costly?"

By Tom Engelhardt

Fri Feb 24th, 2006 at 09:27:16 AM EDT :: Iraq

Finding the tipping point for Vietnam - and for Iraq.

TomDispatch has long attended to the "costs" of George Bush's decision to invade Iraq - especially in human lives - both in terms of American troops sent into action there and of the Iraqis who have suffered grievously. Less attention has been paid here (and elsewhere) to the literal costs of the war, not just to who is being bled, but to what is being bled dry. Mark Engler, who has previously written on the business community and the war for TomDispatch, now takes up the financial costs of this war and pursues the subject vigorously - considering possible "tipping points" (in terms of how much is too much) for the American public, the business community and the Bush administration. He does so, in the context of our Vietnam experience with the same.

He concludes: "The fact of the matter is that the majority of the country has already decided that the war in Iraq has become too costly. Americans have rejected the prospect of funding a massive and prolonged occupation. In that sense, we have already tipped ... What remains, then, is for the public to hold accountable those who would carry forward the neoconservative crusade - to make their stance a costly one in public life. What remains is for us to bring the political price of war into line with the human and financial costs that we will continue to bear."

This piece confronts the ultimate Vietnam analogy.


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Except that now we are openly and insultingly creating a civil war among people who will hate us for centuries.  Our crimes are truly larger than even our destruction can pay for.  For those using the racist arguments of they are killing themselves, please read the link below

http://www.roadstoiraq.com/?p=723#comments


by ljmgbp on Fri Feb 24th, 2006 at 10:19:07 AM EDT

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that's being created in America over this evil.  I am thankful that the regardless of political dogmas the American people are standing on one accord on the Dubai Port situation.  Thus, showing a glimmer of hope.
"We must take back our nation from all the people who think that anything that offends them should be removed." - Unknown American
by emah1 on Fri Feb 24th, 2006 at 12:03:40 PM EDT
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It should come as no surprise to any US citizen that we are now among the most hated nations in the world. Our government is largely an oligarchy and our superpower status on this globe has forced our hand as a protectorate - join us or pay the price. In antiquity the Athenians found themselved in a similar position the Mediterranean, where their democracy turned into a protectorate and they wielded terror as a method of maintaining the balance of power. And this was the historic cradle of democracy that we often look back upon as a golden age of civilization. I wonder how history will render this American experiment in a thousand years, and how this calamitous moment will be measured with respect to the Civilization experiment?
Dum spiro sparo.
by bcheck (fishindad68@yahoo.com) on Tue Feb 28th, 2006 at 06:28:18 AM EDT
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     I just read the article, which gave me mixed emotions. After all the acrimony about the war, it seems that it will take business interests to tip the scales in favor of those who want to end it. What a shame it is that we need anti-war greed to trump pro-war greed.

by Chris 1964 on Fri Feb 24th, 2006 at 10:44:27 AM EDT
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--it's always been like that.  The number of people who want to sacrifice for the good of others has never been very large.  In order to persuade people to join the effort, leaders have to point out where they will personally benefit by doing so.

The Viet Nam war earned so much opposition by the young and by African Americans because they were subject to the draft.  Their own hides were on the line.  

No sense fighting human nature: use it!

Cassandra
by Cassandra on Fri Feb 24th, 2006 at 12:39:08 PM EDT
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     I'm sure the CEO's will do better in a world where everyone plays nice. (Except at Halibuton)

by Chris 1964 on Fri Feb 24th, 2006 at 04:28:53 PM EDT
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analogy part of this--different situation in many ways--but, separate from the human toll, as you say, the financials bear study. I can't get my mind around such huge numbers, though, so I need to ask: What's it costing ME?

With a current US population of about 300 million, the current cost of this war, $293b, is almost $1,000 per person. If the total war cost is $2,000b then the total cost per person will be almost $7,000. That's for every man, woman, and child. (And we're discounting any future attacks on Iran, Venezuela, etc.)

Comparing these figures to current debt per person, if we take the total public debt of $8,170b, that's $27,434 per person. Household debt, mortgages and consumer, is $11,400b or $38,139 per person for a total current debt of $55,573 per capita. (Household assets are $62,500b or $208,333 per person.)

The public debt is increasing about $2b per day, that's about $7 per person per day or $2,500 per year.

What's the tipping point on a personal basis? Depends on the person, I imagine. Rumsfeld would probably compare the max war cost to the total public and personal debt, 7,000 vs. 55,000, and say it's only 12 per cent, a bargain for defeating the terrorists, building democracy in the Middle East and defending America. Myself, with no personal debt, would say that my portion of the public debt is already too high and no way do I want to increase it another 25 percent, 27,000 to 34,000 with this ridiculous invasion and occupation.

(Speaking of costs, why do we have a $439b annual budget for the Pentagon when there is no military threat against the US? That's almost $1,500 per person per year, exclusive of any wars.)

The reality, of course,is that these costs are not being assessed now. We're putting the whole thing on a credit card to be financed and refinanced and eventually paid, perhaps, by someone, but not us.
So with unlimited credit we pursue our dreams of empire. It's not costing us anything and a lot of people are making a lot of money. As Rummy told the Congress in recent budget testimony: "We can afford whatever we need as a country." His new neighbor in Maryland, Dick Cheney, doesn't mind either as he moves into his $2.9 million dollar house recently bought with blood money from Halliburton.
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"War is a racket . . . the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives."---Smedley Butler
by Don on Fri Feb 24th, 2006 at 02:51:02 PM EDT http://warisaracket.org/

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I just can't wait for the pictures live from CNN of the evacuation of the green zone by frantic helicopters.

by Lasthorseman on Fri Feb 24th, 2006 at 04:13:44 PM EDT
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By the comments that I've just read these folks are more concern over their own pocket books than they are over whats right. Wake up people! your country was attack and is still being theaten. If President Bush didn't do what he did everyone would have been going nuts. I have alot invested in this war unlike you apart of myself(a 22 year old son). I support the war and the President till the day he leaves office. Thats what every American should do, opposing him only shows other countries our weakness when they need to see our stenght. This will make victory easier and bring the war to a end sooner. Think about the families who lives were so torn because of 9/1/01. They paid a high price that day. There is no amount of money that will bring back the ones they lost that day. Its time for the politicians to shut up and stand up and show the world who we are.

by armymom3845 on Fri Feb 24th, 2006 at 05:11:28 PM EDT
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Smedley Butler on Interventionism
-- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.

War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.
"War is a racket . . . the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives."---Smedley Butler
by Don on Fri Feb 24th, 2006 at 08:00:46 PM EDT http://warisaracket.org/
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May he come back safe and whole.

Cassandra
by Cassandra on Fri Feb 24th, 2006 at 08:10:07 PM EDT
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     Opposing a decision to go to war is a political and moral freedom that Americans have practiced, even about the Revolutionary War. Personally, my opposition isn't about the cost, it's the lack of reward, and the few special interests that do benefit. We could butt heads all day about whether we're safe (from Iraq) because of the war, or because we were never in danger. As far as the message to the rest of the world, I hope they do know a lot of us don't support Bush. He's doing more of the things that got us attacked in the first place.
     I pray for your son's safe return.

by Chris 1964 on Fri Feb 24th, 2006 at 08:53:13 PM EDT
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A WAR OPPONENT IN UNIFORM:

JEFF ENGLEHART is a former specialist in the U.S. Army's 1st Infantry Division. While serving in Iraq, he became an outspoken opponent of the war, communicating along with several fellow soldiers "through the Internet, as the bloggers hEkLe, Heretic and Joe Public. The three earned a reputation for reporting what was really taking place in occupied Iraq, especially during the brutal U.S. siege of Falluja--on their Web log at ftssoldier.blogspot.com.

"My war in Iraq had proven to be excruciating. Unlike the others in my company, I had to fight a war on three different fronts. One was against an insurgency that proved elusive and deadly. Another was against the Army, as I stood openly opposed to the war and became vulnerable to harassment. The other was fought against myself, battling a conscience that longed to resist participation in an illegal occupation. I felt tired, battered and beaten.  But I had made it, barely.  Many times, I had almost lost the war on each front, but had managed to fight my way through it all. Now we were home, and the war was over [for us].  It felt good, but somehow, the cold winter day only complicated the manner of our return.  For some, it was an inconvenience that could be overlooked.  For me, it seemed the most appropriate ending to a long and dreary story."

A RESPONSE FROM AN IRAQ VETERAN'S MOM:

So often we forget these individuals we love were not born killing machines.  They were forged by our own government.  No one who has NOT gone through basics, then specialized training, can truly say they "understand what the American soldier represents."  

Every troops' opinion will differ upon graduation and continue to vary and evolve, especially after combat duty.  

It is clear, however, that those who possess strength of character, a genuine sense of patriotism and a valid belief is what is right or wrong are the ones, like Jeff, who find the courage to relay truth, even in the face of overwhelmingly powerful odds.

Soldiers whose moral integrity was broken, but not shattered during their "desensitizing" training, that go on to implement abuse or torture on the implied enemy, are then self demonized.  They become this war's walking dead, suffering from guilt, flashbacks, and nightmares after realizing a part of who they are died "under orders!"

The only hope for even a small chance of recovery is to do as Jeff and many other brave combat hardened Vets of this God forsaken war have done...SPEAK OUT...so that the truth is heard by every serving solder, their families, and the American public.

In doing so they will not only begin to forgive and heal themselves, but wield the ONLY weapon capable of bringing down this administration's dark agenda, thereby exposing it's war criminals to the masses who can and MUST remove them from power!

My deepest respect and gratitude to Jeff and others like him who have found their moral courage and voice.  Truly a job well done!!!!!

In Peace and Humanity, Alycia A. Barr

A COMMENT FROM GENERAL SMEDLEY BUTLER, USMC

  IT'S YOUR BOY THAT MATTERS

The Government declares war. To say helplessly:  As individuals we have nothing to do with it, can't prevent it.  But WHO ARE WE?   Well, "WE" right now are the mothers and fathers of every able-bodied boy of military age in the United States. "WE" are also you young men of voting age and over,  that they'll use for cannon
fodder.  And "WE" can prevent it.   Now--you MOTHERS, particularly.  The only way you can resist all this war hysteria and beating tomtoms is by hanging onto the love you bear your boys.  When you listen to some well-worded, well-delivered speech, just remember that it's nothing but sound.  It's your boy that matters.  And no amount of sound can make up to you for the loss of your boy.
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"War is a racket . . . the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives."---Smedley Butler
by Don on Sat Feb 25th, 2006 at 07:15:47 AM EDT http://warisaracket.org/
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You sent your son off to war? Which war? The war of aggression in Iraq? The insurgency in Iraq? The growing Civil War in Iraq? The war on Terror? The coming war in Iran? Exactly how does 9-11 tie into the madness we have unleashed in the world?
I am sad for you, but more sad for your son. He and his buddies are cannon fodder for the NeoCon dream of American Empire. Bush and his gang don't give a rat's ass about our military, unless they can serve as a backdrop for one of his speeches.
The President deserve to be thrown out of office. You say all Americans should support the President. I think that all Americans should support the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. They are the soul of our Republic, and they do not treat Presidents that would be King kindly.
"A slave is he who cannot speak his thoughts.": Euripides
by jbyopa (shaking.the.trees@hotmail.com) on Sat Feb 25th, 2006 at 09:06:36 AM EDT
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and may that be really soon (if we can impeach and hang him) and leave you and the rest of the killing sheeple holding the bloodied remnants of your wasted lives guilty and damned for generations to come!!!


by ljmgbp on Mon Feb 27th, 2006 at 07:26:43 AM EDT
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do then surely your son and the thousands of US troops who have given their lives and maimed for life sacrifice is in vain.  No everyone shouldn't support the President because we are a democracy with the constitutional rights to dissent and freedom of speech.  So we are living up to your son's expectations by exercising our constitutional rights that he's defending.  It is your right to support the war and your president, however, it is not your right to infringe upon the rights of those who do not agree with you or your distrustful president.  Welcome to TO, my dear.
"We must take back our nation from all the people who think that anything that offends them should be removed." - Unknown American
by emah1 on Mon Feb 27th, 2006 at 03:40:58 PM EDT
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Well said- But isnt the whole administration too costly?
Would you have trouble listing 10 bungles? I doubt it. Very intelligent comment. By the way  I have never encountered a person on the" street " who knew what a neocon or a right wing agenda is. Sad but true.
MURZI
murzi
by MURZI (murzi) on Sat Feb 25th, 2006 at 06:50:57 PM EDT
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American's have no idea what a neocon, PNAC or demonic agenda is.  People are strickley in the blind.  I think we should launch a major awareness campaign to wake America up..what say you?!?!?!
"We must take back our nation from all the people who think that anything that offends them should be removed." - Unknown American
by emah1 on Mon Feb 27th, 2006 at 03:45:39 PM EDT
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What is it going to take for the American people to wake up and say to their Congressional Representatives that if we don't get out of Irag sooner rather than later, they will be kicked out of office? America cannot win this war.  Most Americans can't find Iraq on a map and know nothing about the history and culture of the people on whom we are trying to force democracy.  We are leading our children (the soldiers there) down the road to an absolute bloodbath?  A national citizens' movement must be started now!!
Ms.Liz
by elizfo on Mon Feb 27th, 2006 at 07:26:00 PM EDT

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