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JOHN KERRY to demand Troops Out!

By Tiny Wits

Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 12:32:53 AM EDT ::

Sorry to post twice.  Seems urgent.  Democracy Cell Projects announced tonite that the press will print his demand Wed a.m. 4/5/06.  (what's that weird feeling??...to, uh,   No, I wouldn't, I don't do that, but I'm gonna PRAY like hell!)


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is-no-damn-good attitude in the debates seventeen months ago?  

I'm praying with you that he's jumped the Murtha bandwagon and that the vets are circling the draft dodgers.

by alex2012 on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 12:52:06 AM EDT http://www.operation2012.com/

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The New York Times
Printer Friendly Format Sponsored By

April 5, 2006
Op-Ed Contributor
Two Deadlines and an Exit
By JOHN F. KERRY

Washington

WE are now in the third war in Iraq in as many years. The first was against Saddam Hussein and his supposed weapons of mass destruction. The second was against terrorists whom, the administration said, it was better to fight over there than here. Now we find our troops in the middle of an escalating civil war.

Half of the service members listed on the Vietnam Memorial Wall died after America's leaders knew our strategy would not work. It was immoral then and it would be immoral now to engage in the same delusion. We want democracy in Iraq, but Iraqis must want it as much as we do. Our valiant soldiers can't bring democracy to Iraq if Iraq's leaders are unwilling themselves to make the compromises that democracy requires.

As our generals have said, the war cannot be won militarily. It must be won politically. No American soldier should be sacrificed because Iraqi politicians refuse to resolve their ethnic and political differences.

So far, Iraqi leaders have responded only to deadlines -- a deadline to transfer authority to a provisional government, and a deadline to hold three elections.

Now we must set another deadline to extricate our troops and get Iraq up on its own two feet.

Iraqi politicians should be told that they have until May 15 to put together an effective unity government or we will immediately withdraw our military. If Iraqis aren't willing to build a unity government in the five months since the election, they're probably not willing to build one at all. The civil war will only get worse, and we will have no choice anyway but to leave.

If Iraq's leaders succeed in putting together a government, then we must agree on another deadline: a schedule for withdrawing American combat forces by year's end. Doing so will empower the new Iraqi leadership, put Iraqis in the position of running their own country and undermine support for the insurgency, which is fueled in large measure by the majority of Iraqis who want us to leave their country. Only troops essential to finishing the job of training Iraqi forces should remain.

For this transition to work, we must finally begin to engage in genuine diplomacy. We must immediately bring the leaders of the Iraqi factions together at a Dayton Accords-like summit meeting. In a neutral setting, Iraqis, working with our allies, the Arab League and the United Nations, would be compelled to reach a political agreement that includes security guarantees, the dismantling of the militias and shared goals for reconstruction.

To increase the pressure on Iraq's leaders, we must redeploy American forces to garrisoned status. Troops should be used for security backup, training and emergency response; we should leave routine patrols to Iraqi forces. Special operations against Al Qaeda and other foreign terrorists in Iraq should be initiated only on hard intelligence leads.

We will defeat Al Qaeda faster when we stop serving as its best recruitment tool. Iraqis ultimately will not tolerate foreign jihadists on their soil, and the United States will be able to maintain an over-the-horizon troop presence with rapid response capacity. An exit from Iraq will also strengthen our hand in dealing with the Iranian nuclear threat and allow us to repair the damage of repeated deployments, which flag officers believe has strained military readiness and morale.

For three years now, the administration has told us that terrible things will happen if we get tough with the Iraqis. In fact, terrible things are happening now because we haven't gotten tough enough. With two deadlines, we can change all that. We can put the American leadership on the side of our soldiers and push the Iraqi leadership to do what only it can do: build a democracy.

John F. Kerry, a senator from Massachusetts, was the Democratic nominee for president in 2004.

Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company
Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.
by lwelsch (LWelsch@gmail.com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 01:26:36 AM EDT http://home.comcast.net/~PoliticalThoughts/index.html

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I was not all that impressed and was rather disappointed. Yet another deadline. Yada, yada, yada. The time for deadlines is past.

Yes I like that John Kerry did this. Yes I think of John Kerry as a hero and yes better late than never. Yes he ahead of his peers.

But my expectations were much higher. Senator Kerry still has not displayed the leadership he is capable of. He needs to free himself from worrying about becoming President and as Nancy would say Just do the right thing.

Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.
by lwelsch (LWelsch@gmail.com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 01:34:30 AM EDT http://home.comcast.net/~PoliticalThoughts/index.html
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as all that... It is kinda too little too late and prolly has more to do with november elections than anything else all the same i have woken up wanting to kiss my senator. Good for him... "There is still good in him.... I can feel it" In my opinion in general he makes a fairly adequate to decent to even good senator. He isn't like that icky woman democrat i think from california not sure who says "Let the president lie! Let him steal! Let him eavesdrop and abuse his powers hooray!" Though i think i would vote for Feingold before i would vote for Kerry if i had the option... All the same, the senate or in the congress or somewhere in that whole branch is where Kerry definately belongs.... He has done his state proud and we thank him graciously... Just next time Kerry move a little faster and please be more vocal about your support of Cindy and Feingold and everyone else up there in Washington with a brain. But you deserve your kudos today....
Let Freedom Ring! Let the White dove sing! Let the whole world know that today is a day of reckoning.
by Vivi on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 06:22:46 AM EDT morgaineswell.com
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Yeah, that is right John "tough guy" kerry it's year three - AND now - you make the demand - at the same time the president and his cronies are looking for a way out because they don't have enough illegal immigrants who are caught and about to be shipped off to Mexico UNLESS someone (the young teenage boy) signs up for Armed forces - He then will be an instant citizen and you all can stay - Now that the immigration laws are pissing everyone off - they can't even seem to fill their quota with the immigrants so OF COURSE they are pulling out of IRAQ - Everyone there already owns all the guns they are going to own (preparing for their civil war) Time to see what money can be had in good ole Iran.  come on Larry - Kerry is one lame guy and we all know it.

"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 04:47:17 AM EDT
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Be patient please.

Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.
by lwelsch (LWelsch@gmail.com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 01:36:49 AM EDT http://home.comcast.net/~PoliticalThoughts/index.html
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what if I'd blocked comments?
____"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death." Harold Wilson
by Tiny Wits (TimeBean@gmail.com) on Fri Apr 7th, 2006 at 09:20:50 PM EDT http://ForMoronIssues.blogspot.com
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Then the diary would have received zero comments.

The one week rule came as a result of people posting so many diaries that good discussion on any one diary become difficult, if not impossible. To me good discussion is what this part of TruthOut is all about. If you think that it is about getting only your voice out, then you may find no one wanting to discuss with you.

Actions have consequences. I cannot predict what consequences such an action would have other than annoying me personally even more. Why post if if not to also listen?

Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.
by lwelsch (LWelsch@gmail.com) on Sat Apr 8th, 2006 at 04:38:36 AM EDT http://home.comcast.net/~PoliticalThoughts/index.html
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There should be NO exceptions to this rule.  
"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Sat Apr 8th, 2006 at 03:06:42 PM EDT
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If TO is only about discussion, why the long articles from other sources?
If I blocked comments, the discussion, if any, would be routed to other diaries or boards.  Or if I used another registration name that never took comments?  There is plenty to "listen" to without getting comments directly to the diary...and if you look again, the vast majority of comments are about JK's past, which could be considered off-topic in a way, since the info was simply factual plus my mistaken blah-blah about my hope he would call for a troops-out date.
   And a few about me, how could I want his announcement.  That was the biggest mistake...going beyond the headline.
   My apologies.  But if there is a bomb set to go off in every computer using TO, I'm gonna say something!  But better.
   Thx for the feedback.
____"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death." Harold Wilson
by Tiny Wits (TimeBean@gmail.com) on Sat Apr 8th, 2006 at 04:20:00 PM EDT http://ForMoronIssues.blogspot.com
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There are sever pages on TO devoted solely to posting article, and video that I read regularly. The stories while including a place for comments are also about topics chosen by people with a strong association with TruthOut. Yes I can comment on the stories. But the only place where ordinary folk, non-anointed by TO can bring up pretty much whatever we want as a topic is either an open thread or a diary. Otherwise the comment is off topic.

The diaries, have almost as much impact as a story. Now the best way to reduce that impact is to flood the diaries. For example post a diary say every 10 minutes. Kind of makes the diaries section useless doesn't it. So now that we have established that some type of discipline is necessary the quesiton is how much. Well one a week is working, sort of.

Now for urgent news, I really do not look to this part of TO for that kind of news. If there is something immediate in my city, like a tornado sited, I get a text message on my cell phone from my city as well as an e-mail message sent from the city. When 9/11 happened, I got a call from my wife, it was not from the Internet. Then I turned on the television and saw the second plane live. Amazing how fast an urgent message gets transmitted.

Now if someone is consistently posting diaries more rapidly with or without comments, then I would complain to TO via fyi@truthout.org.

As to John Kerry, well I read that two hours before you posted your diary. How do I know, well people who know me know I am up at 1 or 3 am in the morning. I read the NY Times then. I presume your post was referring to that article. So I put the article here so that people might see what you were talking about. I did not find the article overly exciting.

Oh I also watched John Kerry on Meet the Press today. I wish he had sounded as good during the campaign. He sounded strong, simple, and for the most part with direct simple answers. He waffled on impeachment. He should have said when asked, that Congress needed to investigate the President in several areas for possible impeachment. He could have said that is why it is critical to get rid of Republican Leadership. He didn't. I was disappointed in his weak non-leadership answer. My opinion moved ever slow slightly towards a more favorable response. The guy needs some of General Grant's liquor, or HHH's fire in the belly. I was disappointed.

Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.
by lwelsch (LWelsch@gmail.com) on Sun Apr 9th, 2006 at 12:43:16 PM EDT http://home.comcast.net/~PoliticalThoughts/index.html
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you're right.  Never again.

Re:  Kerry the candidate, yuk!  I don't wanna go thru that leadership wimp-out again.
   Come to think of it, maybe he was a helluva soldier, but never a general.
       thx again
____"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death." Harold Wilson
by Tiny Wits (TimeBean@gmail.com) on Mon Apr 10th, 2006 at 09:31:28 AM EDT http://ForMoronIssues.blogspot.com
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 You keep praying all you freakin want - put kerry up on his pedastool - because I will enjoy watching HIM fall down and break his damned neck and hopefully then I won't have to keep you all IN CHECK -

COME ALONG PEOPLE - OF COURSE KERRY WANTS to make his big grandstand and call for immediate withdrawl - because the GOP wants to wipe their hands of the mess over there because they got a fresh market in Iran - HELLO?  

NOw that the killing is done, the country is in shambles;  now that the schools no longer exist and the hospitals no longer stand;  now that the famine rate has doubled and the conditions are way worse then before we ivaded;  Now that the noble cause he wouldn't talk to a mother of a fallen soldier about for over a freakin year is well no longer all that important and Iran is looking nice and a lot like dollar signs and some more good ole blood spill - well NOW our hard assed presidential candadite John "Takes no shit" Kerry is allowed to Make the call - get em out of Iraq because we need em for Iran and besides - who wants to hang out for a civil war and a bunch of pesky terrorist camp leaders kidnapping and releasing our citizens who come out of detention looking healthy - untortured and ALIVE - and making us look bad.

Give me a freakin break people - John Kerry is making that call because it's time to make the call - but Bush has been so damned "stay the course" and noble cause this and thating it that HE CAN'T MAKE THE CALL without make all of us look really crazy for having such a crack pot calling the shots - For Christ's sake people - get a grip would you - We are talking about John Kerry - Mr. I don't have the guts to call my opponent on his cheating ways because I am a sissy or working on the same team .  You people have got to be kidding me?  Please say you are!

Everyone repeat after me "I will not trust another democrat or republican as long as I live?"  I will not be fooled once more into thinking that they are any different from each other.  I will never again believe that Kerry or any of the other sissies posing as a civil servant under the democratic or republican party is doing something because we want them to - Not as it stands now - and not if I keep praying about something that IS ALREADY GOING TO HAPPEN - EVEN if MICKEY MOUSE were the rat with the balls making the demands.  Get real - Maybe I will write a letter to the president demanding that he pull the troops out of Iraq and when he does (because he already said he was going to) You all can think I have some real influence and scared the shit out of the GOP with my threats and harsh words and maybe you will all nominate me for the next democratic presidential candadite -

I am so disappointed in all of you  -

Sheeeeeesh
"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 04:41:26 AM EDT

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Well put.  One side has to appear to be the righteous, indignant voice against the other side.  Otherwise, how would their sick (decades-old) game work???
"Live Simply ... that others may Simply Live."
by Irie on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 06:10:05 AM EDT
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But I just have to say - Are you for real or is this a joke?  
"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 04:50:36 AM EDT
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Well I for one will believe it when I see it, but maybe not even then.  My motto is never trust the intentions of a skull and bones boy.....their usually full of deceptions.  But who knows maybe johns alleigence to his fellow Yalies is no longer valid......maybe he's been kicked out of the club....I highly doubt it.
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it. Edward R. Murrow
by beachdweller on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 04:53:10 AM EDT
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April 5, 2006
Ms. xxxxxxr
xxxxxxxxAve
xxxx, IA xxxx

Dear xxx:

    I appreciate hearing your views on the Senate resolution to censure President Bush for illegally spying on Americans.  I am proud to be a cosponsor of this resolution because I believe that the President should be held accountable for his actions.

    Like many Americans, I was shocked to learn in December 2005 that the National Security Agency (NSA) has eavesdropped on the phone and e-mail conversations of thousands of people within the United States without the consent of a judge, as is required by the Foreign Intelligence
Surveillance Act (FISA).

    Nothing is more important to me than the security of our country, and I believe that our intelligence agencies should absolutely be listening to terrorists' conversations.  But that is why we have FISA, which allows the President to wiretap anyone as long as he gets a warrant from the FISA court within three days after eavesdropping.  Instead of following the
FISA law, the President has chosen to simply ignore it, and to refuse to submit to the oversight of the Congress and the courts.

    Because of the President's contempt for Congressional oversight, those of us in Congress still have no understanding of how extensive this spying is, or how many people have been affected by this program.  In addition, there are indications that the program is ineffective, and actually hinders the work of terrorism investigators by swamping them with insignificant information about innocent Americans.  I believe this
resolution is an important step in answering critical questions about the
program.
    The conduct of the President in acting as though he is above the law has very real consequences for the civil rights and liberties of American
citizens.  Security and liberty are not an "either-or" choice.  They are the fundamental principles by which our democracy thrives.  

As we continue the fight against terrorism, we must also continue to protect the Constitution and the checks and balances that are so important to the balance of power between the Presidency, the Congress, and the judiciary.

    Again, thanks for sharing your views with me.  Please don't hesitate to
let me know how you feel on any issue that concerns you.

                    Sincerely,

                    Tom Harkin
                    United States Senator
- Julie -- http://www.un.org/millenniumgoals Keep the promise, no excuses. www.one.org
by julieim on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 07:47:07 AM EDT

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Do not feel the negativity of the comments on this thread reflect a common disregard for your thoughts on this issue. The effort is worthy.
- Julie -- http://www.un.org/millenniumgoals Keep the promise, no excuses. www.one.org
by julieim on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 07:48:46 AM EDT
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Did anyone read Will Pitt's article about how the GOP is now looking for an OUT of Iraq?  Kerry is hardly capable of standing up for himself let alone for the troops in Iraq - They are gonna pull those poor kids out of Iraq and then send them off to Iran and Kerry is gonna look like a freakin hero because of it.  It is unbelieveable.  

tiny wits said he/she will pray like hell - I doubt hell prays at all - hopefully she/he meant it literally.  This is how people come to think their prayers are answered and then they go jumping off buildings thinking that if they pray - god will let them fly and what happens -

Well, I won't go there. Let's just say this is how bloody messes get started.

By the way did you happen to get any responses from any of the democrats who didn't support the censure bill yet?  

"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 08:22:46 AM EDT
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If only some could remove their rose colored glasses..I hear you...this issue is one that defy's logic at this point...all on the hill need to be reminded that americans are not ALL mindless sheep who will follow without thought...Kerry is not nor has he ever been the politician of the people his is a corporate representation, like most, but his is very personal, can you say Heinz?.  This move is to once again make us think we are being represented in washington...we're not...trust me..while i support any politician who's for saving the remaining lives of our children in Iraq, I can't as Ive said in another post, bring myself to trust the intentions of any member of Skull and Bones.  Im waiting to see how the Iran situation  plays out with these guys..until then,  Kerry?..too little too late..
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it. Edward R. Murrow
by beachdweller on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 09:18:41 AM EDT
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why didn't he join with murtha?

I  believe in Murtha.  He's solid as the rock of Maine's coast.

Maybe Kerry got some balls but I think it's way more what liz is saying.

They better not DARE pull them out of iraq to drop em in iran.  

I guess this is all a big set up so the cousin can give in and go awww shucks, john is right; he was a hell of a competitor and he is right, maybe he should be your next President !

Since JEB ain't gonna cut it, obviously.
Risk! Risk anything! Care no more for the opinions of others, for those voices. Do the hardest thing on earth for you. Act for yourself. Face the truth.
by eyeswideopen (fairy_taletrash@yahoo.com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 09:21:59 AM EDT http://www.usalone.com/cgi-bin/petition.cgi?pnum=302
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Where was he when Murtha was being a man with a heart?  NO WHERE!  Transparent as hell, these guys, eh?
"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 09:43:48 AM EDT
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Now that Iran unquestionably intends to build a nuclear bomb, the international community has few options to stop it--and the worst option would be a military strike:
-by James Fallows
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 year and a half ago, Iran's nuclear ambition constituted a threat but not yet a world crisis. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had not yet been elected president of the country, nor begun his declarations that the Holocaust never occurred and that modern Israel must be "wiped from the map." The mullah-dominated Iranian government was still evasive and uncooperative rather than flatly defiant when the United States and Europe demanded supervision of its nuclear programs by the International Atomic Energy Agency. It might even look favorably on the face-saving compromise the Russian government talked about, under which Iranians could build just about any nuclear power plant they wanted, thereby satisfying their announced desire to move beyond reliance on oil--as long as they left the reprocessing and enrichment of spent fuel, and therefore the potential for building nuclear weapons, in Russian hands on Russian soil.

It was at this time, in September 2004, that The Atlantic sponsored a "war game" to consider what choices the United States might have if the Iranian problem built to a crisis. War games are not a staple of this magazine's operation, but in light of difficulties in Iraq, we wanted to play out the long-term implications of possible U.S. moves and Iranian countermoves. So under the guidance of Sam Gardiner, a retired Air Force colonel who had conducted many real-world war games for the Pentagon, including those that shaped U.S. strategy for the first Gulf War, we assembled a panel of experts to ask "What then?" about the ways in which the United States might threaten, pressure, or entice the Iranians not to build a bomb. Some had been for and some against the invasion of Iraq; all had served in the Pentagon, intelligence agencies, or other parts of the nation's security apparatus, and many had dealt directly with Iran.

The experts disagreed on some details but were nearly unanimous on one crucial point: what might seem America's ace in the hole--the ability to destroy Iran's nuclear installations in a pre-emptive air strike--was a fantasy. When exposed to "What then?" analysis, this plan (or a variant in which the United States looked the other way while Israel did the job) held more dangers than rewards for the United States. How could this be, given America's crushing strength and wealth relative to Iran's? There were three main problems:

  • The United States was too late. Iran's leaders had learned from what happened to Saddam Hussein in 1981, when Israeli F-16s destroyed a facility at Osirak where most of his nuclear projects were concentrated. Iran spread its research to at least a dozen sites--exactly how many, and where, the U.S. government could not be sure.

  • The United States was too vulnerable. Iran, until now relatively restrained in using its influence among the Iraqi Shiites, "could make Iraq hell," in the words of one of our experts, Kenneth Pollack, of the Brookings Institution. It could use its influence on the world's oil markets to shock Western economies--most of all, that of the world's largest oil importer, the United States.

  • The plan was likely to backfire, in a grand-strategy sense. At best, it would slow Iranian nuclear projects by a few years. But the cost of buying that time would likely be a redoubling of Iran's determination to get a bomb--and an increase in its bitterness toward the United States.

Raised eyebrows!
by New Actor (New Actor) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 02:42:20 PM EDT
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"year and a half ago, Iran's nuclear ambition constituted a threat but not yet a world crisis"

One of the main reasons Iran has refused to give up it's rights to a uranium enrichment program is because of it's right to remain a soveriegn state.  With the US on a terror tour for regime change in the Middle East, the only way they can feel protected from an invasion (just because the US can) is by having a threat of equal power - such as their nuclear bomb.  The US has a bad habit of telling the rest of the world they don't have the right to build nuclear bombs while they pretend to be some moral authority over who is responsible enough.  It was this administration who started the whole nuclear weapons race again.  Let's not forget that the outting of Brewster and Jennings also done during Bush's watch is also another devistating factor and cause for the world to fear - the US is the biggest reason for the threat the Iran now poses or may pose in the very near future.  

"War games are not a staple of this magazine's operation, but in light of difficulties in Iraq, we wanted to play out the long-term implications of possible U.S. moves and Iranian countermoves."

hmmm I wonder if these war games include giving top national security secrets away to double agents for Iran - like Ahmed Chalabi and also appointing the international, Iranian double agent to a position of power in Iraq?  

"When exposed to "What then?" analysis, this plan (or a variant in which the United States looked the other way while Israel did the job) held more dangers than rewards for the United States. "

The day the United States stays out of something like relations between the jews and the arabs or looks the other way rather than encourage, equip or demand that Israel obey - is the day I will eat my hat.  If Israel does anything to Iran it will be the US's doings, guaranteed.

" How could this be, given America's crushing strength and wealth relative to Iran's?"

yeah our record breaking trade deficit and national debt along with our expensive on going cake walk of a war surely makes our financial position something to write home about and our overworked, ill-equipped, understaffed and used up military people are certainly no match for Iran - Iraq - well those insurgents fighting the occupying force, they put up a good fight.  Saddam's inability to lift one airplane against the illegal, unwarranted invasion is proof that we are one stressed military considering we are still there and the war was declared "Mission Accomplished" over two years ago.

" Iran spread its research to at least a dozen sites--exactly how many, and where, the U.S. government could not be sure."  

Not now anyway - now that all of our most experienced and well connected agents have resigned and our Brewster and Jennings tracking has been shot to shit thanks to this administration and their spy lovin, terrorist aiding, incompetance.

"The United States was too vulnerable. Iran, until now relatively restrained in using its influence among the Iraqi Shiites, "could make Iraq hell"  

Another free gift from these racketeering administration officials - besides we managed to make Iraq hell with our without the Iranians cozying up tot he Shiates.  

"The plan was likely to backfire, in a grand-strategy sense. At best, it would slow Iranian nuclear projects by a few years. But the cost of buying that time would likely be a redoubling of Iran's determination to get a bomb--and an increase in its bitterness toward the United States. "

The bitterness is another fire we fed - just like the professional doomsday makers we are.  Who knows how to take a bad situation and make it worse?  We do, that is who.  

We toppled Iran's natural neighboring enemy - that used to take all Iran's focus and resources with their constant warring.  We fed the information to the Iranians through Chalabi (A bush favorite) informing them that we had the ability to decode messages they sent.  We outted our spies who took cover at a company named Brewster and Jennings and that which used to track the sale of uranium and nuclear weapons as well as the purchase.  That was a dosey.  We pissed off the entire middle east and most of the world with our war in Iraq.  We left the one cause of constant warring between Iraq and Iran, ineffective to disturb the peace between the two countries and the great divider has proven his ability to finally unite people - only he did so with the wrong people.  The list goes on and on -I just saw you missed many important facts in your assessment and wanted to remind the readers of the real reason we are in the mess we are in - Iran has barely changed but we managed to leave them sitting pretty and turn everything around for them making us their prime target and giving them, the middle east and the entire world a common enemy - US - Sheeeesh Whose side is this administration on anyway?  
"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 11:34:40 PM EDT
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those posts were starting to sting a bit!  If I ever feel that lawless urgency again, I'll block comments.

I did rather rush into the announcement since I saw nothing on this board about it.  I have written letters directly to Kerry since the last "selection" of Bush begging him not to run again, totally fed up with his poor judgment (that ski-boarding after Iowa was a horrible tip off to a guy out of touch with people) and wimping out on the swift-boat issue.  Not to mention he didn't by any stretch discuss ending this invasion/occupation.

    And, correct me if I'm wrong, is he not only the 2nd Congressman to come out for withdrawing troops?  Sure it's politix.  And we have 100% more senators than before!  That is, indisputably, a good thing.

       Maybe these other posters would feel less enraged if they registered to vote as Independents.  I feel better.  Not responsible to or for either political party.  (Why do they call them "parties"?  Is it like war is conducted "in theater"?
____"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death." Harold Wilson
by Tiny Wits (TimeBean@gmail.com) on Thu Apr 6th, 2006 at 10:02:29 PM EDT http://ForMoronIssues.blogspot.com
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the threat of the TRUTH of Sept. 11, 2001 is beating down his door way.  Even between chomping on bananas and swinging from the Whitehouse chandeliers he can glimmer that.

He wants to clean up his friggin mess before that all caves in on his dumb head.

Ain't no cleanin THAT up, georgy-porgy puddin pie.

This IS important.   Many interesting implications arise from this.  Don't kick people when they are down; it's very unsporting.
Risk! Risk anything! Care no more for the opinions of others, for those voices. Do the hardest thing on earth for you. Act for yourself. Face the truth.
by eyeswideopen (fairy_taletrash@yahoo.com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 09:26:00 AM EDT http://www.usalone.com/cgi-bin/petition.cgi?pnum=302

------------------------------------------------------------
That was the situation nearly two years ago. Everything that has changed since then increases the pressure on the United States to choose the "military option" of a pre-emptive strike--and makes that option more ruinously self-defeating.

About Iran's intention to build a bomb, there is no serious disagreement among Russia, China, France, and the United States. Iran has dropped its pretense of benign intent. It refused the compromise that Russia formally proposed late in 2005 (though a new round of negotiations was announced early in March). Last year's elections, the most democratic in that nation's history, transformed the leadership--by making it more anti-Western and harder-edged. The attainment of an Iranian bomb might provoke Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and other neighboring countries to begin nuclear programs of their own, and might make the terrorist groups Iran supports throughout the region feel they can attack with greater impunity. Dealing with Iran is now considered an international crisis.As it has watched Iran's evolution, the United States has delivered more and more studied warnings that "all options remain open"--code to the Iranians that they should worry about an attack. In different ways, George W. Bush and two aspiring successors, John McCain and Hillary Clinton, have expressed this view. Government officials in Israel have been more explicit still, with the defense minister saying that Israel "will not accept" Iran's acquisition of nuclear weapons. Intellectuals, activists, and out-of-power politicians from Newt Gingrich to Benjamin Netanyahu have all urged their leaders to stand firm.

The biggest change has been in what Soviet strategists used to call the "correlation of forces." Every tool at Iran's disposal is now more powerful, and every complication for the United States worse, than when our war-gamers determined that a pre-emptive strike could not succeed. Iran has used the passing time to disperse, diversify, conceal, and protect its nuclear centers. Instead of a dozen or so potential sites that would have to be destroyed, it now has at least twice that many. The Shiite dominance of Iraq's new government and military has consolidated, and the ties between the Shiites of Iran and those of Iraq have grown more intense. Early this year, the Iraqi Shiite warlord Muqtada al-Sadr suggested that he would turn his Mahdi Army against Americans if they attacked Iran.

Economically, Iran also has far greater leverage than before. Through 2004, the price of a barrel of oil averaged less than $40. In 2006, it has been above $60, an increase of more than 50 percent. Rising demand from China, India, and, yes, the United States has left virtually no slack in the world's oil markets. OPEC's "spare" production capacity--the amount it could quickly supply beyond current demand--is about 1 million barrels a day. Iran now supplies about 4 million barrels a day. If it chose to, or had to, remove much of its oil from the market, a bidding war could send the price of a barrel of oil above $100. Eventually, everyone would adjust. Eventually, the Great Depression ended.

 Perhaps the American and Israeli hard-liners know all this, and are merely bluffing. If so, they have made an elementary strategic error. The target of their bluff is the Iranian government, and the most effective warnings would be discreet and back-channel. Iranian intelligence should be picking up secret signals that the United States is planning an attack. By giving public warnings, the United States and Israel "create `excess demand' for military action," as our war-game leader Sam Gardiner recently put it, and constrain their own negotiating choices. The inconvenient truth of American foreign policy is that the last five years have left us with a series of choices--and all of them are bad. The United States can't keep troops in Iraq indefinitely, for obvious reasons. It can't withdraw them, because of the chaos that would ensue. The United States can't keep prisoners at Guantánamo Bay (and other overseas facilities) indefinitely, because of international and domestic challenges. But it can't hastily release them, since many were and more have become terrorists. And it can't even bring them to trial, because of procedural abuses that have already occurred. Similarly, the United States can't accept Iran's emergence as a nuclear power, but it cannot prevent this through military means--unless it is willing to commit itself to all-out war. The central flaw of American foreign policy these last few years has been the triumph of hope, wishful thinking, and self-delusion over realism and practicality. Realism about Iran starts with throwing out any plans to bomb.
by: James Fallows of the Atlantic Monthly.
Raised eyebrows!
by New Actor (New Actor) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 02:55:35 PM EDT
[ Parent ]

------------------------------------------------------------
of applause to the KGB for getting us right where we are today but since he's all buddy with them ...  I think this is just where he wanted "us" to be.  

Then we all choose 'protection' over all those 'terrorists'.

Thanks, new actor, I think I'm gonna start reading AJC again.  Oddly they have a very decent paper or used to.  

Soon we have left a country with few jobs.  Those that have them will be the 'chosen', we'll have trafficking as our major source of revenue and well, only the chosen there and people unable to declare bankruptcy to save their homes will be wandering the streets.  
All of America except the shorelines, a ghetto.

THANKS KGB!!!!  You are the most villified man in American history for good reason.  

And Dick? Your mama sure named you right.
Risk! Risk anything! Care no more for the opinions of others, for those voices. Do the hardest thing on earth for you. Act for yourself. Face the truth.
by eyeswideopen (fairy_taletrash@yahoo.com) on Thu Apr 6th, 2006 at 07:59:57 AM EDT http://www.usalone.com/cgi-bin/petition.cgi?pnum=302
[ Parent ]

------------------------------------------------------------
"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece?

Naturally the common people don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.

Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

Herman Goerring
The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. Edward R. Murrow
by Elegba (elegba@gmail.com) on Thu Apr 6th, 2006 at 09:26:46 AM EDT
[ Parent ]

------------------------------------------------------------
I recently read that(again), as well.

There is a way that he and the bush family are related. More than one way.  

I'd say I'm appalled but ...  that was ... way back.

This is like nazi germany all over again just a lil sneakier
Risk! Risk anything! Care no more for the opinions of others, for those voices. Do the hardest thing on earth for you. Act for yourself. Face the truth.
by eyeswideopen (fairy_taletrash@yahoo.com) on Thu Apr 6th, 2006 at 09:40:10 AM EDT http://www.usalone.com/cgi-bin/petition.cgi?pnum=302
[ Parent ]

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I hear a 2008 election candidate coming.
--
"War is a racket . . . the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives."---Smedley Butler
by Don on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 11:35:38 AM EDT http://warisaracket.org/
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Who else would the Dems want to go up against Jeb?

He's already tossed it once to a bush, why not twice?

There's no conlict in washington - they're all such good little well paid politicos!
Oft Evil Will Shall Evil Mar - Theoden
by Not An American (naa-truthout@hotmail.com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 11:40:25 AM EDT
[ Parent ]

------------------------------------------------------------
  on.  I guess they don't call him a flip flopper for nothing -  LMAO -
"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 12:06:54 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
------------------------------------------------------------
Is, Kerry going to personally finance the withdrawal of our troops from Iraq personally with his wife's Heinz Ketchup fortune....? Because if he is not then i think he is making a mewt point in demanding them out. Where is the funding going to come from to get them out? Don't tell me China. We have borrowed too much already... The more i think about it... Kerry is talking big and offering nothing... He needs to put his money where his mouth is or he should just shut up.... It's cruel to make noise and get the people's hopes up just before election time only to send those hopes crashing down. Not only is it cruel it is manipulative so if he wants to personally fund bringing our troops home thebn please give the man a microphone. If not stuff a dirty gym sock in his mouth already and tell him to shut up.
Let Freedom Ring! Let the White dove sing! Let the whole world know that today is a day of reckoning.
by Vivi on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 05:26:09 PM EDT morgaineswell.com
[ Parent ]
------------------------------------------------------------
And the timing of this article concerns me. Clearly, he is commencing his run for 2008, but I think Kerry knows something. The date of May 15 makes me think he is forecasting our pre-emptive strike against Iran. If we don't get our kids home before the resident idiot launches his bombs, families and friends in the U.S. might as well say good-bye to their loved ones in Iraq. They won't be coming home.

by WonderWoman on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 05:26:09 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
------------------------------------------------------------
I also wonder if this has any significance in a tie in with the big announcement for 'insurance for all' in kerry's  homestate of mass.   The timing?? hmmmm

They did that insurance for everyone around here too, I think.  Let's see ... nothing changed.  They want indigent people to pay a fee to be on a state insurance and a. make it hard to sign up.  b.kick them out if they miss a payment they can't afford.

I probably don't need to tell any of yall this.  Yall know they just use this to keep cycling money into their pockets.  The poor and the elderly and the children are no better off but we can all guess WHO is.

I don't buy Heinz anymore but it's too late. ha
Risk! Risk anything! Care no more for the opinions of others, for those voices. Do the hardest thing on earth for you. Act for yourself. Face the truth.
by eyeswideopen (fairy_taletrash@yahoo.com) on Thu Apr 6th, 2006 at 08:22:32 AM EDT http://www.usalone.com/cgi-bin/petition.cgi?pnum=302
[ Parent ]

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"I demanded the troops stay in before I demanded them to get out!"

by MistrX (Trautco@pacbell.net) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 05:29:26 PM EDT
------------------------------------------------------------
I have to agree with X!
Oft Evil Will Shall Evil Mar - Theoden
by Not An American (naa-truthout@hotmail.com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 09:28:39 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
------------------------------------------------------------
Kerry can suck my Cheney.....

Guys, it always gonna be like this until we get the money out.......maybe we have to do it state by state, but Kerry is owned by the .mil-complex....Finestein's hubby has nearly $1 billion in defense contracts.....and the list goes on.

It's almost like you have to be a millionaire to be a senator anymore.....
-9.00, -7.69 ... We may all put our pants on one leg at a time, but it's the ones that leave their zippers down ya gotta watch out for....
by brent (bonnyladd@hotmail.com) on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 10:29:00 PM EDT
[ Parent ]

------------------------------------------------------------
Almost like you have to be a millionaire?  Looks to me like you DO have to be a millionaire -- or have very good millionaire friends.  
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." -- Mahatma Ghandi
by earthymom on Wed Apr 5th, 2006 at 11:44:31 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely!  Research can show that this $$worth is minimal.  And 20 years ago, 85% were lawyers.

____"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death." Harold Wilson
by Tiny Wits (TimeBean@gmail.com) on Fri Apr 7th, 2006 at 10:55:44 AM EDT http://ForMoronIssues.blogspot.com
[ Parent ]
------------------------------------------------------------
it is sure as hell a quick way to become one!

by sirius99 (Aiman) on Thu Apr 6th, 2006 at 07:04:59 AM EDT
[ Parent ]
------------------------------------------------------------
new millionaires out of the millionaire club.  They don't want to share everything that could be theirs.  Pigs!
"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Fri Apr 7th, 2006 at 02:25:38 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
------------------------------------------------------------
you said it brent.  IF I had a cheney he could suck mine too,,,,,
Risk! Risk anything! Care no more for the opinions of others, for those voices. Do the hardest thing on earth for you. Act for yourself. Face the truth.
by eyeswideopen (fairy_taletrash@yahoo.com) on Fri Apr 7th, 2006 at 09:21:22 AM EDT http://www.usalone.com/cgi-bin/petition.cgi?pnum=302
[ Parent ]
------------------------------------------------------------
Three years ago it was Johnny on the pot...and Johnny get your gun.

Feathers on the wind,
Flimsy kites...on a stormy day.

A Man Who Would Be King.

by sirius99 (Aiman) on Thu Apr 6th, 2006 at 07:16:36 AM EDT

------------------------------------------------------------
You know, you don't have to want to vote for someone for President in order to say, thanks for being one more voice. You can complain all you want about "too little too late" or you can say, one more legislator on the bandwagon is ... just that.

Are we waiting to be kissed by a prince or what?

I don't have to think someone is Mr. Right in order to appreciate the added voice. Johnny come lately is better than Johnny not coming at all. Who cares about his political motivation at this point, we just need to get everybody on the same page. Ranting about what someone didn't do is pointless.
- Julie -- http://www.un.org/millenniumgoals Keep the promise, no excuses. www.one.org
by julieim on Thu Apr 6th, 2006 at 09:58:34 AM EDT

------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Julie......you said: "Ranting about what someone didn't do is pointless.".....and I am sorry, but I disagree.....

I look at what the people and officials and legislators didn't do when Hitler rose to power......with my limited knowledge of actual events, it still seems to me that not enough people ranted..........

In my book, not doing something that should be done can have as big effect as doing something one shouldn't....if that makes any sense.

My thing on Kerry is that he put himself out there as the guy to be the president, so I expect more out of the guy.

And as it seems he is testing the waters for another run, I have a fair amount of scrutiny on the guy.

One thing I found interesting in the last election was that I was struck with the oddity during the debates that here were two millionaires, both Yale and  both Skull and Bones, wanting us to believe that there was a world of difference between the two.......

And while there is a difference for sure, the thing in common is that they are both bought and paid for by different corporate interests.

While we may get Universal Healthcare with Kerry and a Dem House, he is still basically OK with war as a tool of foreign policy and I'm sure if we check the record, he will have voted for our 2004 intervention in Haiti and the sanctions on Cuba, for instance.

.
-9.00, -7.69 ... We may all put our pants on one leg at a time, but it's the ones that leave their zippers down ya gotta watch out for....
by brent (bonnyladd@hotmail.com) on Thu Apr 6th, 2006 at 11:41:10 AM EDT
[ Parent ]

------------------------------------------------------------
He's all that and more. But it doesn't make any difference whether he is a knight in shining armor or a wannabe.

Numbers are numbers. Voices against the war add up. We need every congress person we can get. In the absence of a perfect 10, 'll take him and any other mixed bag that shows up, when it comes to redirecting the congress.

 
- Julie -- http://www.un.org/millenniumgoals Keep the promise, no excuses. www.one.org
by julieim on Thu Apr 6th, 2006 at 12:12:06 PM EDT
[ Parent ]

------------------------------------------------------------
This is about staying in Iraq to finish seeing that so called "noble cause" through to the end or starting another war and sending them over there - to Iran.  Nothing like taking our beat up soldiers, tired and overworked and sending them to a fresh group of warriors and pissing off even more people in the world.  

This war might end BUT ONLY for another one to start.  

The president wants to wipe his hands of the mess in Iraq that he made because and only because of the lack of resources he has to use for Iran.  They aren't coming home they are going to Iran.  That is what we are saying.  Kerry is helping orchestrate another war not stopping this one.  
"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Fri Apr 7th, 2006 at 12:01:51 PM EDT
[ Parent ]

------------------------------------------------------------
To me there is a big difference between Senator John Kerry and say Senator Schumer of New York. That difference is that Senator Kerry has asked us to think of him not just as another Congress person, but as one who would be President. Not only did in run for president, but he has given very strong indications that he will run again.

Then there is his status as War Hero who lead the anti-war effort. That took guts, real guts. I don't mean the kind of fortitude to run into the jungle after someone trying to kill you. I mean the guts to stand up to the slings and arrow of people trying to ruin your reputation.

I had hoped for a stronger person to have been forged by this process. Much more agin to Al Gore, who will say what he thinks is right, and takes strong affirmative action to create new direction for society. Kerry and Gore are of the same generation and each has high aspirations. Each has lost a bid for the presidency after coming very close. One has shown he has learned from defeat, the other hasn't.

That is my disappointment in Kerry. He hasn't shown he has learned. Until he does, I will wait and see.

Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.
by lwelsch (LWelsch@gmail.com) on Fri Apr 7th, 2006 at 06:48:24 AM EDT http://home.comcast.net/~PoliticalThoughts/index.html
[ Parent ]

------------------------------------------------------------
I believed at one point that what Kerry did as a veteran and the anti-war movement took guts.  However, in retrospect and watching how the man operates I am led to believe that he was simply vying for a position of power.  

At that time, there was a huge anti-war movement happening in the US and he knew it.  He volunteered for service unlike some AWOL presidents.  However, is that his own bravery or is that how badly he wanted power?  

At the same time, I can't argue with the fact that once you fight a war your understanding of the word war changes you - and your view on it also.  Unless, of course you like to kill others for a hobby or something.  I don't know.  His father, as I said before was well connected with the Manhatten project.  Vietnam vets suffered from that too and there is a part of me that asks now why would he volunteer for such a thing knowing all that he knew?  

I just really doubt his intentions and I really doubt he gives a shit about anyone but those in his secret societies and his class of wealth.  It all stinks if you ask me.
"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Fri Apr 7th, 2006 at 12:07:59 PM EDT
[ Parent ]

------------------------------------------------------------
That was just a mess the first time thanx but he can stay in the senate but president? Sorry i for one would shoot myself in the head if i had to listen to his monotone droning on and on through the state of the union. I am sure i wouldnt be the only one too... yech... Dems need a real candidate not a washed out old disilusioned senator....
Let Freedom Ring! Let the White dove sing! Let the whole world know that today is a day of reckoning.
by Vivi on Fri Apr 7th, 2006 at 12:31:32 PM EDT morgaineswell.com
[ Parent ]
------------------------------------------------------------
Like being read to in class.  So priviledged he thinks he knows people?  I thought for awhile, with the ski-boarding and sail-boarding, with the public already luvin' W and wanting to have a beer with him, this idiot is a shill; he's just throwing the election.  
   And he wouldn't listen to advisors begging him to use inflection, shorter sentences etc.  He made the usual political rhetoric sound like high art.
   Kerry was, probably is, the master of soporific.  
    But, hey, 2 senators is better than one!  And when you think about it, if those were counted votes, he got a helluva lot of 'em.  Mostly as the lesser of two evils, but correctly seen as relatively innocuous as compared to "the Secret Smarm."
   Things are morphing daily.  So, just for a day, I took some pleasure in the doubling of senatorial speak out.
   Maybe he should have to pay for the costs of withdrawing the troops!  And the 3 Bares in the Bush can pay off the deficit.
____"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death." Harold Wilson
by Tiny Wits (TimeBean@gmail.com) on Fri Apr 7th, 2006 at 09:47:44 PM EDT http://ForMoronIssues.blogspot.com
[ Parent ]

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