t r u t h o u t || Israel Is Killing Way More Children

Israel Is Killing Way More Children

By Marc Ash

Mon Jul 17th, 2006 at 09:45:43 PM EDT :: Middle East

It is true that Hezbollah and Hamas undertook actions that they knew would lead to conflict with Israel, but Israel's response has been to make war on unarmed civilians, and that cannot be justified. Many - way too many - of those killed by the Israeli airstrikes over the past several weeks have been young children.

Those deaths have all too often been the result of attacks that cannot be justified militarily, and must be attributed to a punishment of a civilian population for its support of armed resistance fighters through the killing of children along with unarmed men and women caught in the cross-hairs of vengeance with them.

Let it be said that Israeli children are not being targeted in this conflict in the same manner.

If this is a war to preserve a Jewish state, the question must be, in what state shall it exist when the killing is done?

Israel Is Killing Way More Children

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Sorry, I disagree.

As a Jewish person, I approve of the defensive attacks Israel has made upon the Hezbollah sites.

Hezbollah has put their sites intermingled with civilians deliberately. Hezbollah does not regard civilians highly.

They kill Israeli civilians and then hide behind civilians so when Israeli IDF goes after Hezbollah civilians get killed.

I do not approve of the Likudnik oriented government. Olmert used to serve in the Likudnik government and I don't approve of their economic policies and although I do want Israel to find peace with the Philistines I do approve of defensive attacks in retaliation to killing of and injuring Israeli citizens.

Join the Liberal Democratic Party of the United States of America.

www.dmocrats.org
Join The Liberal Democratic Party of the United States of America. http://www.dmocrats.org
by buckfush (info@dmocrats.org) on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 01:33:10 AM EDT http://www.dmocrats.org

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What is offense versus defense

Larry Johnson in Israel Takes a Stupid Pill states better then I can the issue that:

Israel is attacking targets in Lebanon like a drunken sailor in a bar fight. Flailing about, causing significant damage, hitting innocent bystanders, and generally making a mess of things.

The article goes on to correctly point out:

While most folks in the United States buy into the Hollywood storyline of poor little Israel fighting for it's survival against big, bad Muslims, the reality unfolding on our TV screens shows something else. Exodus, starring Paul Newman, is ancient history. Hamas and Hezbollah attacked military targets-kidnapping soldiers on military patrols may be an act of war and a provocation, but it is not terrorism. (And yes, Hezbollah and Hamas have carried out terrorist attacks in the past against Israeli civilians. I'm not ignoring those acts, I condemn them, but we need to understand what the dynamics are right now.) Israel is not attacking the individuals who hit their soldiers. Israel is engaged in mass punishment.

Screaming terrorist unfortunately confuses the issue. For as pointed out earlier:

They (Hamas and Hezbollah) are not terrorists. They carry out terrorist attacks, but they are not terrorists. They are something far more dangerous. They are a fully functioning political, social, religious, and military organizations that use terrorism tactics, but they are far more formidible than terrorist groups like Al Qaeda or the Basque Terrorist Organization. They do have the resources and the personnel to project force, sustain operations, and cannot be easily defeated. Unlike the Egyptian and Syrian armies in 1973, Hamas and Hezbollah will not easily fold and cannot be defeated in a seven day war. If that is the assumption among some Israeli military planners it is a crazy fantasy.

The US and Israel by failing by taking simplistic sloganeering positions unfortunately are failing to deal with the complex issues from which solutions come.

Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.
by lwelsch (LWelsch@gmail.com) on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 07:09:11 AM EDT http://home.comcast.net/~PoliticalThoughts/index.html
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What is offence?

They (Israel and the USA) are not terrorists. They carry out terrorist attacks, but they are not terrorists. They are something far more dangerous. They are a fully functioning political, social, religious, and military organizations that use terrorism tactics, but they are far more formidible than terrorist groups like Al Qaeda or the Basque Terrorist Organization. They do have the resources and the personnel to project force, sustain operations, and cannot be easily defeated. Unlike the Egyptian and Syrian armies in 1973, Israel and the USA will not easily fold and cannot be defeated in a seven day war. If that is the assumption among some Hamas and Palestinian military planners it is a crazy fantasy.
aljoschu
by aljoschu (Kosmopolit) on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 02:37:35 AM EDT
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The Shabitzkreig

I agree with much of what you say Buckfush.....except that you are using the same BS talking points as the media...."I approve of the defensive attacks Israel has made upon the Hezbollah sites." Is that defensive? Looks more like massacare to me. Hezbollaah is mixed in with the civillian population because for the most part they "are" part of the the civillian population. I am pro_Israel in that I believe we should defend and assist with funding when they work with us. But approving of this has nothing in common with supporting Israel. The American government is not America. The Israeli Government is not Israel. If you watched the corporate press you would believe that Israel never strikes out except in defense, and that all Syrians, Palestinians, and Lebaneese are terrorists. Criticising the US government does not make one anti-American anymore than criticising Israels overkill makes one anti-semite.
Bush announced last night that this is actually a good thing, "a step closer to peace". I share the same confidence in his assesment of the situation that I do in that Israel is simply defending itself.

by Fishingriver (fishingriver@gmail.com) on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 11:16:36 AM EDT http://vote4change.net
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no license to LIE

Being Jewish does not give one a license to LIE or to accept official media lies. I'm a Jew. Honesty is as essential to Judaism as it is to all the other major religions except the religion of stolen profits and Intelligence.

EXCERPTS from CNN article on Carter

Carter: Bush Israel's 'worst ally' in D.C.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/05/mideast.main/index.html

Bush has encouraged Israel and Hezbollah to attack. (kind of like a staged dogfight, but one dog has advanced weaponry while the other's is more primitive, and the puppies get stomped)

he is uncertain whether Bush can accomplish a cease-fire. (Oh, he's uncertain --- what a committed man --- whether Bush can order Israel to cease-and-desist, leading to Hezbollah stopping fighting, which is what THEY want and are asking for.)

encourage the continuation of attacks on both sides," (true)

allow Israel to defend itself if attacked.

(Israel had NOT been attacked when it invaded, Hz captured Israeli soldiers on Lebanese territory, where Israel has been staging hit-and-run attacks for years. Warmongers tend to decry "liberals" who claim permanent victimhood and demand special treatment and govt handouts ... except Israel.)

" ... maybe the worst ally Israel has had in Washington has been the George W. Bush administration, which hasn't worked to bring a permanent peace to Israel,"

(But he's LYING, because the Israeli leaders have also been working against permanent peace, by rejecting peace offers, again and again, and responding to them with missile attacks.)

"I would say certainly begin a major withdrawal from Iraq no later than the end of this year."

meaning with counter-politics, two years and we'll think about maybe removing a few troops ... And what about the 20,000 foreign troops in Iraq who now have green cards, bring them home to America too? OH, WOO HOO Carter, you're such a radical peacemaker! May you be blessed with the blessings you have laid upon others.

I posted a MUCH longer explanation here, and there's no room to post it here.

Jimmy Carter and the Nazis

Sorry, you can come back to Truthout after reading it.

"All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order." -- David Rockefeller
by dilbertgeg (scary_cut_@takeoverworld.info) on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 06:22:16 PM EDT http://www.Takeoverworld.info/
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buckfush is correct

Thank you for telling it like it is.

I absolutely agree, the Likudniks have privatised way too much of the economy, but as Americans stood together after 9/11, Israelis come together when attacked.

I don't think most Americans understand the reason for Israel's powerful reaction to a single citizen being taken hostage, plus they seem to be buying the moral equivalency argument the Gazans and Shiite Lebanese are putting forward about the hostages they took and the Arab prisoners Israel has in jail. It is totally not the same thing to arrest someone for committing a violent crime or an act of terrorism, versus capturing someone for the crime of being AWJ (Alive While Jewish).

When we said "never again," we meant it. Not a single Jewish life shall be taken without consequence for the perpetrator, nor hostage taken without a fight to the last person to reclaim our own.

I think the Arabs understand that this is Israeli policy and so knew the reaction the hostage-taking would have, but the Americans seem clueless. Both of which play perfectly into Hezbollah plans.

We really need to educate our fellow Americans.

Go Liberal Dems!

And Shalom to All.

by little bear on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 02:05:11 AM EDT

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Never again?

"When we said 'never again,' we meant it. Not a single Jewish life shall be taken without consequence for the perpetrator, nor hostage taken without a fight to the last person to reclaim our own."

Stupid me, I always thought "never again" meant never genocide again against anyone in the world, but it seems I was wrong -- it means Israel über alles.

As a supposed "light unto the nations," Israel has been less than stellar of late.

by Mutternich on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 08:03:07 AM EDT
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Good point

I gave my own twist in
Lessons of the Holocaust.

Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.
by lwelsch (LWelsch@gmail.com) on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 09:05:18 AM EDT http://home.comcast.net/~PoliticalThoughts/index.html
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the only thing is that,

you cannot compare the holocaust with what is going on between the israelis and palestinians. No one needs to be reminded that with the 'final solution' jews were sent by trains to death camps, where most of them died in gas chambers (more effective for killing large numbers of people then say, guns). Half the world's Jewish population in fact was killed by 1945. The aim was to kill all jews. But, The jews were not at war or in conflict with the Germans over something. You (iwelsch) present fantasies that the Germans may have had (probably did, i'm sure you're right), but you can't point to jewish 'terrorism' or 'warfare' or conflict over who owned land etc. Israel is not aiming to kill all of the Palestinians. I am not supporting it's policies of collective punishment, but it's important to distinguish the aim here. There are those on this board who will come in and announce that because I don't believe their claims that Israel is commiting a genocide, that means I'm a zionist (read: fascist who wants to take over the world). Their's is a simplistic generalization, I believe in order to find a way to say the worst thing possible about the Jews. Interesting that there isn't one board here about Darfur... That's a real genocide (right?), but who cares... It's no fun if you can't beat up the Jews....

by sarao on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 09:18:36 AM EDT
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Lebensraum

The aim of the Third Reich was to create Lebensraum or living space for the Germans. Getting rid of the Jews was a part of their final solution.

One can in an analogous fashion say the aim of Zionists is to great space for a Jews in a Greater Israel. While not having the power to create gas chambers, many hard line Zionists have made life very unpleasant for Palestinians through acts of terrorism before Israel's creation and including acts of mass killing. To a Palestinian who has had land a livilihood taken from her or him, been stoned, vandalized, bulldozed, (sometimes by the state, sometimes by Jewish settlers) te distinctions are lost. They have not seen what happened. They do see the daily brutality. Yes the actions are less drastic, but that distinction is lost on the victims.

Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.
by lwelsch (LWelsch@gmail.com) on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 09:46:17 AM EDT http://home.comcast.net/~PoliticalThoughts/index.html
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i see what

youi mean, but i think the scale is important to consider. Also, i'm sure you'll agree that while some fundamentalist nuts want more 'living space', or rather the biblical lands, probably the more important issue has been self protection...

by sarao on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 09:49:13 AM EDT
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also,

come on, it was more than making room. They had plenty of space, and they made more for them selves by taking over other countries. You know they spread the word about Jews being rats and rodents, and all that.
Also, i suspect the reason taht Israel has not built ovens has nothing to do with capacity (financial or other). The jews are not trying to exterminate the palestinians, but the germans were trying to exterminate the jews. it's that basic...

by sarao on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 10:08:39 AM EDT
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Yes and Jewish People

Did not receive the worst of the holocaust. Arguably the gypsies suffered even more and their population was even more devastated. The lessons, though, remain. The Israelis have not learned, that:

exacting collective punishment is wrong;
destroy a people is difficult; - from the Palestinian perspective this is what is happening; and
that for peace the powerful must help the weak.

When will they learn? The answer my friend is blowing in the wind.

Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.
by lwelsch (LWelsch@gmail.com) on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 10:38:17 AM EDT http://home.comcast.net/~PoliticalThoughts/index.html
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Not just Gypsies

Also Polish, Ukrainians, and Russians...

When I was a wee tad there was a Polish couple not too far down the road from us that both still had the tattoos on their forearms (from Belsen I believe).

When they visited, the dog would sit immediately beside our family and growl till the moment they left.
Oft Evil Will Shall Evil Mar - Theoden
by Not An American (naa-truthout@hotmail.com) on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 01:08:30 PM EDT
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The truth is the destruction

of any people is wrong. What happened to the Jews was evil and what Israel is doing to the Palestinians and Lebanese is equally wrong. Stop the killing NOW!!!
"We must take back our nation from all the people who think that anything that offends them should be removed." - Unknown American
by emah1 on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 02:00:33 PM EDT
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800,000

versus 6,000,000...

by sarao on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 10:01:55 PM EDT
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sarao, you speak as if

the Palestinians were responsible for the holocaust. Maybe it was 6,000,000 but not one fell by the sword of a Palestinian, 800,000 have fallen by the might of so-called israel.
"We must take back our nation from all the people who think that anything that offends them should be removed." - Unknown American
by emah1 on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 10:10:12 PM EDT
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different conversation emah...

i was responding to the assertion that gypsies had it harder than jews in the holocaust. There is enough horror to go around on both side in israel/palestine, i just dispute the comparison of the holocaust where jews (and others) were gassed en mass.... etc. you can read the comments above...

by sarao on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 11:19:03 PM EDT
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alos emah...

you have your numbers wrong. i doubt the palestinians have lost anyhwere near 800,000 people to israel, over the course of nearly 60 years. I was responding to the person who said that the gypsies had it worse than the jews during the holocaust. in terms of numbers, the jews lost 6 million (1/2 jewish population on the earth, practically all of the european jews), the gypsies lost 800,000 (about an 1/8th of what the jews lost). It's kind of stupid to compare, anyhow. The holocaust was an atrocity, unspeakable, for all who experienced it. But, it's silly to compare israel/palestine to that. the situations are not comparable, the intent is not comparable, and the numbers, no where near... israel is not trying to exterminate an entire population, germany was. nowhwere in what i've written, though, should you be reading taht i approve of collective punishment. i don't at all. but that doesn't mean i don't disagree with these idiotic/glib comparisons....

by sarao on Wed Jul 19th, 2006 at 12:12:49 AM EDT
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Clarity is very important

when responding. I on the other hand do see the comparison of the holocaust to what is happening to the Palestinian people. israel has the military prowess to exterminate the entire host of Palestinians and the Arab region in totality. Whenever they kill innocents it's washed as an accident, nothing more said. Kill an entire family before their daughter and no one is held responsible because it was an accident...bullshit. The imprisonment of thousands of Lebanese and Palestinians, to what end and for what purpose, other than they can. Dismantling these peoples' source of energy, communications, clean water supply, roads, bridges, and institutions, to what end and for what purpose warrants such sufferings?

No longer can israel be allowed to cause such carnage upon another nation of people. Give these people their rightful land, compensate them for their suffering and losses and let peace take form in this region before it escalates to a point of no return and the entire world be blown to hell.
"We must take back our nation from all the people who think that anything that offends them should be removed." - Unknown American
by emah1 on Wed Jul 19th, 2006 at 10:30:10 AM EDT
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they may have the power...

but that doesn't mean that they have the srategy to build gas chambers and kill thousands of people a day in them. You guys are big lumpers, but fails to see key distinctions. I think it caters to your antisemtic drives... And like i sid before, who give a shit about Darfur? If you can't make generalizations about jews, or insane accusations, where's the fun?

by sarao on Wed Jul 19th, 2006 at 03:19:24 PM EDT
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BLESS YOU Emah!

Only a fool will need to be convinced of who
is right and who is wrong anymore. Is it any
wonder the Bush administration has got away
with fooling the public so easily??? BRAINDEAD,
MORONS!
Raised eyebrows!
by New Actor (New Actor) on Wed Jul 19th, 2006 at 05:02:38 PM EDT
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BLESS YOU TOO NA

and thank you for keeping us so well informed through the articles you've posted about what happening to our brothers and sisters in the homeland. It's long overdue that we speak up and out.
"We must take back our nation from all the people who think that anything that offends them should be removed." - Unknown American
by emah1 on Wed Jul 19th, 2006 at 05:41:00 PM EDT
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Lebanon's Expendable People

By Mike Whitney

07/19/06- The most shocking thing about Israel's assault on Lebanon is the dispassionate precision with which the bombardment has been carried out. From bridge to granary, from granary to power plant, from power plant to factory, from factory to mosque, from mosque to hospital, from hospital to apartment building; each decimated with the calm disdain of a surgeon removing a cancerous tumor. We get no sense of rage in Israel's behavior, just the calculated savagery of men who see their duty as systematically decapitating an entire civilization and leaving it in ruins.

The destruction of Lebanon is the work of robots not men; unfeeling, remorseless bundles of skin and bone.

No one could have done what these men did in just seven days and be a part of the same human family as you and I.

So far, there is no indication that the captured Israeli soldiers have been hurt or mistreated. The leveling of a once-bustling and prosperous metropolis has been executed while the victims are still safely tucked away in some unknown hiding place. There's no purpose for Israel's rampage, the terms for release could have been negotiated in a "prisoner swap" as they have many times before. The bombing is purely a gratuitous act of violence intended to destroy a nation that just recovered from 18 years of Israeli occupation. Now Lebanon has been returned to the Stone Age.

Why?

Have the soldiers been tortured or abused as they would have been in American or Israeli care?

I hope not. I hope they are being treated well. I hope they are set free and allowed to walk southward through the scattered-rubble and body parts so they can appreciate what their leaders have done in their names. I hope they are released so that Hezbollah can claim a moral victory over the forces of inhumanity and cynicism that have infected the seats of government in Tel Aviv and Washington.

Whatever chance there may have been for peace is gone now. We have to be realistic. The next generation of Muslims will despise us and everything we stand for. No capital or city will be safe. The US and Israel are sowing dragon's teeth throughout the Middle East and their bloody harvest will come in the decades ahead. Cheney was right, this war could last 50 years and not end in our lifetime.

Lebanon was the last straw. It proves that everything Bin Laden said was true: "They have come to take your land and your resources; they have come to shame your women and disgrace your culture; they have come to humiliate you in front of your children and heap ignominy on your religion."

Where was he wrong?

Author and writer Pepe Escobar said it best: "The effect of the Israeli bombing barrage will be to draw newer, thicker waves of moderate Muslims toward political-and radical-Islam. The perception in the Arab street- as well as for most of the world's 1.4 billion Muslims-has been reinforced: the U.S./Israel axis seems to hold a license to kill Arabs with impunity." (Pepe Escobar, "Leviathan Run Amok" Asia Times)

Escobar's right. The lives of Muslims mean nothing. They've become the "expendable" people whose security simply doesn't matter. Their wholesale slaughter appears regularly on the evening news while heart-wrenching stories are spun about the suffering of Israeli fathers and mothers who lost loved ones in retaliatory attacks.

Don't Muslims have mothers and fathers? Is it so important to demonize them that they must be stripped of every trace of humanity including parents?

Where will these "expendable" people go as the world's resources continue to dry up and their homelands are increasingly besieged?

Indonesia, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Afghanistan; where will they all go? Will they be shunted off to refugee camps or live as prisoners in their own land; be shot like dogs or stand and fight until the end?

How many will chose to join the growing ranks of jihadis and resistance groups plotting and planning to strike back in any way they can? How many will figure that it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees?

Lebanon has paved the way for a century of war. It's been ravaged and its people evacuated to settle scores with Hezbollah and create a buffer zone on Israel's northern flank. The ruined lives are of no consequence. The city will be rebuilt by loans from the World Bank and IMF and the work will be contracted by Halliburton and Bechtel. We've seen it all before; the utter destruction of a society so that it can be placed in the hands of the global corporatists. Lebanon will be no exception.

Now that Israel's northern flank has been "pacified" Olmert can turn his eyes eastward towards Damascus where the ophthalmologist Bashar Al-Assad will have to be toppled to secure pipeline routes from northern Iraq to Haifa. That way Israel will become a major player in this century's resource wars and a leader in the region.

The geopolitical chess match is unfolding just as it was written years ago by neoconservatives who were dismissed at the time as radicals and lunatics. No one is laughing now. The 12 villagers who were massacred in Srifa yesterday by Israeli bombs aren't laughing nor are the parents of the 11 children who were vaporized by an Israeli missile while taking a swim in a canal at Oasmia refugee camp.

This is the calculus of human misery; the deliberate killing of innocent people to achieve political objectives. It is no different than terrorism. Bush and Olmert are two men who have absolute confidence in the ability of violence to shape behavior. They are not concerned about the rivers of blood that feed their dreams. After all, those people are "expendable."
Raised eyebrows!
by New Actor (New Actor) on Wed Jul 19th, 2006 at 08:18:53 PM EDT
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You have poured your heart and soul into this ..

statement and I wholeheartedly say thank you. Thank you so very much as what you have said is what I have been feeling and crying about. Thank you.
ButterflyII
by ButterflyII on Thu Jul 20th, 2006 at 07:59:40 AM EDT
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Thank You!

Thank You also for this very personal article.
I studied American language and literature many years ago. I loved the American writers: Melville, Whitman... I cannot visit the USA anymore. It feels like an old friendship has been broken.
Today my heart and compassion is with the people in Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq.
My warmest regards,
aljoschu
by aljoschu (Kosmopolit) on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 03:20:23 AM EDT
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Cold Equation

Yes, the Israeli response is calculated. Aimed with the best intelligence they have of Hezballah positions and resources. Yes, they are trashing Lebanon's infrastructure. Now, let's look at a few other facts:

Lebanon's 1948 Declaration of war remains in effect.

Hezballah is far more cold in calculating which Israeli city to randomly attack.

Hezballah is a member of Lebanon's Government, and therefore, considering the that a state of war still exists, Lebanon itself has attacked Israel wantonly.

These facts point Israel's right to reduce, and eliminate, Lebanon's ability to make and wage war.

There is also a missing fact I'd like to point out. The Israeli's have quite good aim. They canremove a building from a block, while barely affecting the other buildings on that same block. Why is it that we haven't heard about how many Hezballah terrorists have been killed? Or has Lebanon learned from the Palestinian Authority that everyone killed in an Israeli action is to be considered a civilian?

by Annoyed on Sat Jul 22nd, 2006 at 12:14:52 AM EDT
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Great explaination!.. thanks.

Alright,
What you missed is,
Where were those two Israeli solders!.. it was a Lebanese occupied area where Hizbullah took them, but is it wrong??, in fact, usually the Israeli patrols entrees the Lebanese border and they feed some spies who they planted in the south of Lebanon, so this issue isnt really clear!

The hostage who Hamas took was with a group near by their tank, so you might think, it might be a different issue than what Hizbullah did, but for us here in Middle East, its just what the Israeli usually do, they just attack in no time, they let the F15 fly in the air... its no FUN, for they break the air barrier on a low attitude to annoy people and scare women and kids, break all the glass in the house includes windows kitchen..etc, they do that all the time... more like "WE JUST CAN SACRE YOU".

Anyways, if you look at what Hizbullah did as a wrong thing to do, you are mistaken, because I don't think you would like someone to feed a spies in your city.. Do you?

Why Arabs and Muslims are defeated easily???
many thinks it because they are weak, or they are cowards..etc.
well, if you think of it that way, you need to read more about what Islam orders, and not the haters of Islam's sites.
Islam doesn't allow killing of women, kids, oldies, animals or trees, Islam doesn't allow to kill people in their houses, and most of all, Muslims mostly more religious than others.... anyone who lived even for a short time in a Muslim country would quickly notice how they use the word "GOD" Allah in every phrase they may speak as of Arabic, at least more religious compared to others.

So, Islam restrict killing in massacre (that's why I didn't believe the 9.11 attack), but anyways, if you read Islam's history you shall know that it never happens along the history.
Also Islam restricts raising war without the permission of the leaders, I guess that clears out why Muslims aren't taking no serious reaction yet.
of course, many blames the Muslims leaders for being mute or of a reactions to what the Muslim nations wanted it to be.

So, what's the game here!
I personally and seriously think of a good example to what's going on as of this
A man (Arabian) sitting, another man came and tickled him, but the Arabian did not respond, the other man scratched him, the Arabian didn't react, then the other man hit him, then slapped him then... but the Arabian didn't react, the other man thought the Arabian is a dead man... so beware of the wise man's anger, for the Arabian man at that time will react as angry man and might not thought of what his religion told him to do.. Arabian are less hassle of death its known about us, we (Arabian) believe

<Emah> "We must take back our nation from all the people who think that anything that offends them should be removed." - Unknown American!
"We must take back our land and unite our nation again and call it Palestine"

God created man to build not to destroy
by 3arabi on Tue Jul 25th, 2006 at 02:50:25 PM EDT http://www.palsteen.com/
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3arabi

You are most welcome here. We for the most part, are as shocked as you are over the situation in your region, and saddened by the senseless violence toward Arabs and Muslim people that Israel has thoughtlessly and callously bestowed upon you.
We here do not support Mr. Bush in his backing of Israel's claim of acting in self defense, we can see through this story, and we wish you safety for your families and a permanent end to this suffering.

by Angelgabriel on Tue Jul 25th, 2006 at 09:54:11 PM EDT
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Thanks Angelgabriel!

Thanks for the welcomeing and we all wish the whole world to shake and the violence to end... Amen!
It seems that WWIII is almost at the doorway, I hope I am wrong.
God created man to build not to destroy
by 3arabi on Wed Jul 26th, 2006 at 11:03:55 AM EDT http://www.palsteen.com/
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3arabi

As-Salamu Alaikum:

Our fathers Ishmael and Isaac, peace be upon them, blessed and laid the foundation for their children. As the 2 brothers came together in PEACE to bury our father Abraham we must follow suit in this time of peril. Peace is the answer. Throughout our history we have sought peace with our neighbors. It is time for Ishmael's seed to stand up and demand of its leaders peace.

The Shia/Sunni Clerics like the Hebrew High Priest and Elders are not always correct in their decision making. It's time for a bottom's up approach to resolve this matter for the sake of the generations to come. I agree Palestine is our land but is this small strip of land worth the millions of our peoples' lives that have been lost and the sufferings of the children and elders? For every male that is killed thousands of Abraham's seed dies in that one man. As we, who are here alive this day, were indeed in Abraham's loins at the time of the issuance of the promise and blessings.

Abraham, Blessed is He, was promised the land as far as his eyes could see, that promise was not confined to his physical eye sight but rather encompassed the entire earth and the galaxies. We are not bound to this one strip of parcel.

Gentile israel will have her day, the God of our Fathers, Peace Be Upon Him, will see to that. May the God of our Fathers bring you peace and happiness during these dark times.

As-Salamu Alaikum
"We must take back our nation from all the people who think that anything that offends them should be removed." - Unknown American
by emah1 on Wed Jul 26th, 2006 at 09:21:49 AM EDT
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Salam Alikom Emah1.

You are right in every word, but when you are dealing with a people who doesnt understand peace , and it wont be easy for you to just be the only one who sacrifice for peace... which will never happend appearntly.

Now, logically, if we read the history since 1947, when the British mandate on Palestine, we shall see how Palestinians seems to be a real peaceful people, they agreed and signed documents to give a part of the land to jews, but is that enaugh from Palestinians??

if you think so, Then did you ever know what the Israeli flag all about??

The Israeli schools teaches kids that Israeli land is from the river to the river (thats the two ribbons of blue).. which is from Iraq to part of Egypt (Nile), while Israeli always deny that, but its in the Israeli schools and its a song, kids are requested to sing it every morning.

You cant talk about Peace when the other party isnt really care about it, I understand there are Jews [not Israeli Jews] who would love peace, and they are usually against the Israeli administration [Zionists movement in total].

So, trouly it doesnt seems to be peace unless burn those Palestinians in whole, even the Muslim/Christian [Arab48] Israeli ones for they still remember their land, and of course they teach it to their kids, and also burn the history books too since its going to remind people that the land is called Palestine not Israel.

One more thing.. Israel [pbuh] died long ago, but while he was alive, he didnt name the land by his name [of course, Israel is Jacob as God named him by Israel].

So, the only hope is that the world to remember well that once upon of time, it stands on the wrong side and plant people in a land of others.

The Palestinians arent the one who made what Jews called [Holocust], but they keep on killing Palestinians for it.

Also check this link to know what the plan is!
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm

God created man to build not to destroy
by 3arabi on Wed Jul 26th, 2006 at 12:09:27 PM EDT http://www.palsteen.com/
[ Parent ]

: ------------------------------------------------------------

3arabi I do understand and agree

wholeheartedly with your position. We're rocking in a similar boat on this side. Blacks oppressed in America and our brothers oppressed by gentile israel backed by the US.
Be not mistaken the seed of Jacob is alive, but is buried under 6 ft. of dirt in the Valley of the Dry Bones. Soon the bones will be reconnected and the sinew will be restored upon Jacob's (Israel) bones and regain their rightful position in civilisation as it was spoken by the Prophet Ezekiel, peace be upon him. It is only for a time and season that the true Israel shall be buried in the tomb and then shall come the resurrection. The children of Sarah and Hagar shall be united as one, joined at the hip, in peace. I do understand.
Peace Be Unto You
"We must take back our nation from all the people who think that anything that offends them should be removed." - Unknown American
by emah1 on Wed Jul 26th, 2006 at 02:13:15 PM EDT
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Emah....You hit the nail right on the head....

No one said anything when Israel bombed that Gaza beach and killed a family in front of the children. Nothing. It was an accident, right? Bullshit. They did it on purpose. Israel is trying to exterminate the Palestines. They have now taken on the roll of the Nazis. This time they are using bombs and air raids. Israel is a Nazi nation.
ButterflyII
by ButterflyII on Thu Jul 20th, 2006 at 07:48:55 AM EDT
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A Palestinian land mine, not an Israeli bomb

You know I want to continue to debate the issues here, but those who support the Palestinian cause should at least get their facts right. The deadly explosion was a Palestinian (Hamas?) land mine, not an Israeli bomb. See the piece below from the Yorkshire Post...

"AS someone who has worked with peace and co-existence projects in the Middle East and has seen, at first hand, the tremendous efforts of both Palestinians and Israelis to live peacefully together, it is extremely frustrating and worrying to read the constant deluge of uninformed and often biased reporting in the media. Frequently, statements are presented as fact, which are completely incorrect, and often out of context. Some may think that the Gaza beach incident, (which, subsequently transpired to have been a Palestinian landmine), was the instigator of this current crisis." -- We should be grateful to Israel for fighting forces of evil Yorkshire Post July 27, 2006,
dmendelson
by dmendelson on Tue Aug 1st, 2006 at 01:53:14 PM EDT
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See the piece below???

Yorkshire Post, remember? The piece is below???

by Angelgabriel on Tue Aug 1st, 2006 at 05:29:23 PM EDT
[ Parent ]

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The quote is from the Yorkshire Post

The entire article is much longer.
dmendelson
by dmendelson on Tue Aug 1st, 2006 at 06:25:21 PM EDT
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I don't see any link for the article

If you don't mind providing it, I would like to see the article, maybe others would want to see it as well.

by Angelgabriel on Tue Aug 1st, 2006 at 07:23:23 PM EDT
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: ------------------------------------------------------------

Yes please, I'd like a link too

Israel has enough atrocities under their belt that they don't need to get unfair credit for any extra.
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." -- Mahatma Ghandi
by earthymom on Tue Aug 1st, 2006 at 09:52:36 PM EDT
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: ------------------------------------------------------------

Here's the whole piece

Lynne Coates is a photo-journalist from Leeds with extensive experience of working in the Middle East producing documentaries about living with terror, and co-existence peace projects. AS someone who has worked with peace and co-existence projects in the Middle East and has seen, at first hand, the tremendous efforts of both Palestinians and Israelis to live peacefully together, it is extremely frustrating and worrying to read the constant deluge of uninformed and often biased reporting in the media. Frequently, statements are presented as fact, which are completely incorrect, and often out of context. Some may think that the Gaza beach incident, (which, subsequently transpired to have been a Palestinian landmine), was the instigator of this current crisis.
They are wrong. Hamas terrorists have been constantly bombarding Israel with missiles from Gaza since Israel's withdrawal. You have to ask why they are doing this, rather than using the millions of dollars paid to them in aid each month by the international community to build schools, hospitals and other essential infrastructure for a Palestinian state. Recently, Hamas attacked an outpost in Israel, killing an Israeli Defence Force officer and a soldier, wounding four others and abducting a soldier. This resulted in a military response from Israel - how could it not? Hezbollah then launched an unprovoked attack against northern Israel, killing eight soldiers, and abducting two more. It is obvious now, to everyone in the international community, that Hezbollah has been planning this attack on Israel for some time, armed by Iran and supported by Syria. Hezbollah now has the capability to send thousands of sophisticated long range missiles as far as the Israeli city of Haifa, and perhaps even Tel Aviv. In the context of this barrage of lethal missiles being fired at innocent Israeli citizens, how is Israel expected to respond? A small country surrounded by enemies has the right and indeed an obligation to protect its cities and its people - as would any other country in that situation. It is wholly and naively wrong to think that the international airport in Beirut is the victim of Israeli bombing. The airport was bombed to prevent more armoury being transported to Hezbollah - a normal strategy of war. The airport and all other targets are a victim not of Israel but of the instigators of this war. The bombing and destruction of parts of Lebanon is a tragedy, not only for the innocent civilians caught up in this war, but also because Lebanon is being used as a proxy by Iran, to wage war on western democracy. The current situation is undeniably depressing. Israel is a country which wants nothing more than to live in peace with its neighbours, and likewise the majority of Palestinians want to live in peace with Israel. Within Israel there are countless co-existence and peace projects which bring Palestinians and Israelis together, through the arenas of education, sport, art, music and humanitarianism. Many Arabs and Jews are long standing friends and neighbours. The tragedy is they are being torn apart by the terrorists' murderously evil agendas. People who constantly criticise Israel and her right to defend her citizens must ask themselves how they would expect their democratically elected government to react in the same situation. It is unthinkable for us here, in the safety of the UK, to know how it feels to live with constant rocket attacks and suicide bombings. Of course, we had a vile taste of that terror on 7/7, but imagine - Israel has to live with that on a daily basis. Parents knowing that when they send their children off to school on a bus, they may not return home safely. When their kids go out, even shopping or for a pizza, they cannot rest until they are once more safely home. And the greatest sacrifice of all - every Israeli son and daughter has to serve their time in an army, which, more than any other country in the world, sees action. Those who all to easily condemn the Israeli Defence Force for a disproportionate response conveniently ignore the lengths that the IDF go to in order to avoid civilian casualties, such as leafleting the areas to be hit, (which jeopardises their own forces by forewarning Hezbollah), and trying to accurately pinpoint targets. Hezbollah deliberately targets civilians, filling the warheads of their missiles with ball bearings to maximise injury. Basing themselves intentionally within heavily civilian populated areas is a cynical ploy to ensure innocent casualties, thus gaining global sympathy and guaranteed media propaganda. It is also a calculated strategy to deter IDF attacks. We should, in fact, be grateful to Israel for shouldering such a massive responsibility, prepared to sacrifice its courageous young men and women who are forced to take their place in the army in defence of their country. While those, safely ensconced in the West, sit back in judgment, they should know that the forces of evil are joining together, gaining strength and growing in numbers, pursuing an agenda to wipe democracy off the map. Israel is merely the frontline. If Israel does not succeed in stamping out this cancer, our own "safe" lives might become as vulnerable as those in that tiny state. We should, therefore support and not decry what needs to be done - not only in defence of Israel but the greater fight against terror wherever it raises its repugnant head. In the words of Israel's Prime Minister Ehud Olmert: "We fight for everything that everyone in the enlightened world takes for granted and never imagined that they would have to fight for the right to a normal life."
dmendelson
by dmendelson on Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 at 10:42:29 AM EDT
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Excellent point L........

I too have tried many times to make this point among friends and acquaintences.......only to be treated as a "Nazi" sympathizer...........bd
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it. Edward R. Murrow
by beachdweller on Wed Jul 19th, 2006 at 11:15:07 PM EDT
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Don't let them beat you down with that kind of

rhetoric. I used to debate some "neocons" that have a public tv show in Santa Barbara,CA, and they were constantly telling me the same thing. I don't know how they come up with that kind rationale, especially when they are the bigots who tend to approve of world domination under the guise of spreading democracy.
They think every opposition group wants to kill US citizens or take over our country. They are scared to death of all Muslims, and they are affraid of Latinos because of that, almost unheard of, Mexican Reconquista movement group that wants to take back California. It's kind of ironic though, specially when they never feel the need to point out how the neo-nazi groups in this country are well funded, strong and growing.
I think it's embarrassing when, in the 21st century, an injured 12-yr-old Lebanese girl has to ask reporters to tell America that not everyone is a terrorist.
"You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you have to concentrate on." George W. Bush
by YUCA (msealesk@yahoo.com) on Thu Jul 20th, 2006 at 08:21:49 PM EDT
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So by suppressing

the Palestinians in Gaza, keeping them in sub-human conditions with no hope of opportunity or freedom to reclaim their stolen homeland. By locking them in jails for trumped up crimes, or for no real reason at all other than running from a soldier, you claim moral high ground that there is no comparison between the policies of Israel and the Nazi's? Are you kidding???
Keeping a race suppressed and slowly demoralizing them to the point of hopelessness is supposed to what, make them greatful to their captors? Could we all please lick your boots Sarao?
So when Israel marches into Lebanon with troops leaving a burning holocaust in their wake how will they march Sarao?

by Angelgabriel on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 09:41:19 PM EDT
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Mythology

Stolen homeland of the Palestinians is one the most perverse, and frequently misused mythologies of the 20th century. Let's look at some basic facts:

As the Israeli's are now warning the Lebanese civilians to evacuate in the face of impending military action, so did the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (Arafat's uncle) when goaded the Arab's to invade the nascent Jewish state. Remember, the Mufti is the same man who visited Germany during the war to examine how the Nazi regime "dealt" with it's Jews.

Jews, born in the British Mandate prior to 1947 carried "Born in Palestine" ontheir birth certificates. Arabs did not.

There was no "Palestinian", other than Jews, prior to the creation of the PLO in egypt in 1964. Prior to thatdate, Arabs born on the West Bank were acutally born in Jordan, since that country annexed the West Bank in 1951.

However, if, by the "stolen homeland" myth, you are referring instead to the State of Israel itself, let me point out that many Jews bought huge swath's of land between the years 1880 and 1947. Then, the Jews decided to form their own state. The pogrom of 1929 and WWII had far more to do with this than any of Herzl's philosophies.

Let us now look at some realities. Jews hold a special place in the nefarious hatreds of Islam. A Jewess supposedly poisoned Muhammed. This is recorded in the Hadith. Quranically, Jews are also hated where Jews are meant to be "hostages" for Muslim sinners, and, when they reach paradise, transfer their sins to the Jews. George Vajda penned an authoratative essay on Jews in Islamic dogma in 1937 (10 years BEFORE the creation of Israel). Jews taking over a part of Muslim lands is an insult to Muhammed, and cannot be tolerated. Hezballah's stated goals are not merely to "protect Lebanon" or "support their Palestinian brother's", but will also liberate the Zionist occupied lands of Quds (referring to the Al-Quds Mosque).

by Annoyed on Sat Jul 22nd, 2006 at 01:01:28 AM EDT
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based on history

Abraham was originally from the Iraqi sity of UR
and the Jews conquered what is now Israel from the Philistenes an others over a long period of time.
Saying Israel is a Jewish homeland is like saying Detroit is an American homeland.
Because you kill who lived there doesnt mean its a "homeland"
No society rooted in inequality for any reason can have peace.
The desire for a Jewish homeland...and to control "the demographic question" made everyone else second classed citizens.
So the palestenians had to go.
The problem is that they are no more likely to forget than the Jews were.
Lebanon is now Poland. Somewhere in the Isreli psyche they must know it.
The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. Edward R. Murrow
by Elegba (elegba@gmail.com) on Sun Jul 23rd, 2006 at 10:03:59 AM EDT
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Israel is Causing a Holocaust now

As a non-Jewish American, I see the Israelis as going out of their way to deliberately cause destruction and murder of the people of both Lebanon and Palestine. The West Bank and Gaza seems to me to have become an occupied ghetto where, once a member of a Palestinian revolutionary group is found, their home gets bulldozed and the person gets imprisoned, charged, and convicted of "crimes" in Israel. Since these people are not Israelis and are fighting what they see as an occupying force, it seems to me ludicrous to call them terrorists. In America we call them Patriots.
American Jews also need to decide where their allegiances lie: are you American or Israeli? if you are Israeli, then you need to identify yourself as such so that the rest of us Americans can distinguish your opinions as biased towards your own aims. Im sick and tired of Israel and the U.S. insisting on enforcing U.N. decrees and sanctions against their enemies while refusing to follow these same.
The sole reason Americans are being attacked by the so labeleled 'terrorists' is because of our sole support of Israel. Why are we doing this when it is not in our interests either politically, socially (if you believe the United States to truly separate church and state), or economically?
In America you can be Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist (my own choice), or Atheist and still back up American interests 100%. Anything else we call treason.
Be a Patriot and look at the problems from the interests of America:
We need to not be involved in the Middle East, and it goes against American ideals to try to police the world, regardless of decisions in the past to do so.
Most of these actions ended badly for us like Korea, Vietnam, and our current intrusions into North Africa and the Middle East.
I also dont believe you can call Americans Jew Bashers by any extent, especially since our government has put us knee deep in the sewage with Israel. I also think Israelis should be a little more grateful for a country that supplies them with over 2 billion American dollars a year in weapons and such. The comments Ive seen so far from self proclaimed Jews make me think they are just using America for their own ends, thus an ally like that is not one America needs.

by Poggle (poggle_the_hedgehog@hotmail.com) on Sun Jul 30th, 2006 at 06:45:43 AM EDT http://www.poggleworld.com
[ Parent ]

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So you feel

Israel is justified in bombing The Palestinians, and Lebanese people, kidnapping 25+ members of the Palestinian Parliament, maintaining positions around Gaza and not allowing, or slowing any aid, for the humanitarian crisis that has reached epic proportions with dire consequences to the civilian population there?

You state;
"I don't think most Americans understand the reason for Israel's powerful reaction to a single citizen being taken hostage, plus they seem to be buying the moral equivalency argument the Gazans and Shiite Lebanese are putting forward about the hostages they took and the Arab prisoners Israel has in jail. It is totally not the same thing to arrest someone for committing a violent crime or an act of terrorism, versus capturing someone for the crime of being AWJ (Alive While Jewish)."

You seem to feel perfectly OK & justified in the Israeli resolution;

You state;
" Not a single Jewish life shall be taken without consequence for the perpetrator, nor hostage taken without a fight to the last person to reclaim our own."

For thirty years your people have maintained a Gulag called Gaza where Palestinians are controlled and treated like dog's and being systematically suppressed by the Israeli jailers. Your fundamentalist settlers continue to push Palestinians off their land and bulldoze at will. You only respond when a former U.S. President gives you a warning that your support might be reduced unless you back off and start treating your neighbors in the region in a more humanistic manner, and remove your iron foot from their throats in Gaza. I'm not speaking of the roadmap here make no mistake! The roadmap is lip service and is only good for wiping ones a-- with.

Do you ever wonder why people in this area hate you so much? Does that question ever pop into any of your heads? Do you feel justified in locking up anyone who openly disagrees with your government or religious leaders moves to expand throughout the entire region?

Anyone who would move in on my home, or kill my children or wife or husband, or uncle, or lock up my neighbors would pay dearly until my last breath.

Where the hell do you people draw a line? Don't you for one second try and convince me that your actions are justified!!! You are wrong! Your government is an extension of a fundamentalist movement that is currently occupying Iraq with it's eye on the rest of the region. You are just looking for a reason to bomb your way to Iran and Syria and meet up with "Mr. Mission Accomplished" on an Israeli warship deck somewhere.

Practice peace, and peace will come to you. Practice war, and you will die by your sword. The people of the world don't want to be dragged into your aggression! You are forcing the world into a divide, just as your people have aided a divide in the U.S. favoring a fundamentalist Ideal of Neoconservatism. Destroy those who dissent and move on with your agenda.

Now that Neoconservatism is stumbling and on the verge of extinction you are aiding in an authoritarian extension to those same ideals. You only us or understand force! Israel is the epitomy of consumate greed.

Stop this nonsense and talk your way out of the killing. If you would have shown any sign of diplomacy in this conflict you might have a leg to stand on, but you have unleashed hell on earth once again, and soon it will be too late to put a halt to this. The whole world will suffer from your greed and stubborn resistance to making peace not war.

Disgusting!!!

All war is wrong, I don't justify the actions of the Hamas or Hezbollah miltants either, but there is NO MISTAKE as to who really started this conflict, nor is there any justification for the degree of assault you are maintaining on civilians and infrastructure in the region.

by Angelgabriel on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 05:52:41 PM EDT
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ISRAEL STARTED IT.

I'm sick of hearing them reverse it.

Israel broke the cease fire with Hamas, killing Hamas leaders with rockets and bombs. If Israel has the right of self defense, don't the Palestinian people, the Lebanese, the Syrians and the Iranians have that same right of self defense?

btw, who created Hamas and Hezbullah??

You shall reep what you sow.

The American people have been fooled long enough.
They are beginning to catch-on.

"Just Wait"

Raised eyebrows!
by New Actor (New Actor) on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 03:21:09 AM EDT

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One less terrorist

All the whining of Israel killing innocent children. How about all the "children" that are taught by their so called leaders how to strap a bomb on their bodies and walk into Israel and blow up innocent people and CHILDREN. As far as I am concerned Israels neighbors teach their children to hate Jews and Americans from the time they can learn. One dead child in my opinion is one less future terrorist!

by stuigi (stuigi@erols.com) on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 06:18:22 AM EDT

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If that dead child had been you...

...perhaps one less warmongering neocon.

We can't go back in time and put cyanide in your pablum, but everyone could stand together and stop the killing now...if we had the will.

by Mutternich on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 07:53:54 AM EDT
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Disgusting

This is a disgusting statement. Sick. I suspect there are two sides to this mess, but saying children are part of the problem tells me sick people like you will never be part of the solution.

What kind of person are you? Please, just go away and don't respond.

by Z man on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 07:55:59 AM EDT
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And, you stuigi

are part reason why people have the attitude they have towards gentile isreal. You have the same mentality as those who claim the only good Nigger is a dead Nigger.

Give the Palestinians, 25 million $$$$ daily to build the world's 3rd most powerful military and let's level the playing ground. Give them the support of the greatest military might in the world and there will be no need for suicide bombers.

A blind man can see what is actually taking place here and who the real culprits are...it's about Iran and Syria. The Hezbolla (sp) is captured the 2 soldiers but Iran and Syria are being blamed. Lebanon is being used as the sacrifical lamb to justify drawing Iran and Syria into the battle. I don't think Yod He Wav He will allow Abraham's firstborn son's children to be utterly destroyed. You're fighting a Divine war, be careful!!!
"We must take back our nation from all the people who think that anything that offends them should be removed." - Unknown American
by emah1 on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 10:05:44 AM EDT
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Ignorance is annoying

Israel isn't even in the top ten of "most powerful" militaries. In line before it are:

US
Russian Federation
China
Britain
India
France
Germany
Italy
Spain
North Korea
Japan
Pakistan
South Korea
Australia
South Africa
Brazil
Argentina
Canada

Placing Israel, at best, the 18th most powerful military. But that doesn't very powerful, does it? Doesn't work well with your warmongering, does it?

by Annoyed on Sat Jul 22nd, 2006 at 01:35:01 AM EDT
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Israelis aren't up against those countries,

and if you're talking about the numbers of people in the armed forces, of course you're right.

But those they are up against have little more than small arms, while they themselves are endowed with a sh!tload of the finest high-tech weaponry -- that Boeing and McDonnell-Douglas and Raytheon and all the others in the good ol' USA have to offer.

The right way for Israel to defend itself from rockets fired from Lebanon would be to occupy the area of that country from which the rockets can reach Israel and then dig out the rockets. The destruction of infrastructure and killing of civilians throughout the rest of the country is criminally gratuitious, any leftover "declaration of war" from 1948 notwithstanding.

You are the warmonger here, Annoyed.

by Mutternich on Sat Jul 22nd, 2006 at 07:50:04 AM EDT
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It's all in the history...

Lebanon declared war in 1948. Maintains it's declaration of war, and allows one of it's political parties to bombard the declared. I think Israel has been very nice in not eliminating Lebanon's ability to make and wage war. Hezbollah is a pseudonymn for Lebanon. Blowing up infrastructure, resources and supplies is how one wins wars.

Maybe Lebanon should play nice with it's neighbors (abrogating the declaration of war first, and then recognizing Israel) and not allow it's citizens to bombard them.

This is akin to the Mexican PAN party launching rockets on San Antonio. Mexico would be no more, and no one would be whining about it.

by Annoyed on Sat Jul 22nd, 2006 at 01:53:54 PM EDT
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: ------------------------------------------------------------

Mexico would be a lot more.

"Mexico would be no more, and no one would be whining about it."
Yeah, right. We can't even nail down Iraq and it's much smaller than Mexico. People like you would be whining that we couldn't deal with Mexico and make it stick.
"Hezbollah is a pseudonymn for Lebanon. Blowing up infrastructure, resources and supplies is how one wins wars."
And Israel is America's Mini-Me in the Middle East. That 60-year-old declaration is a piss-poor legalistic excuse for destroying civilian infrastructure and killing civilians on the scale Israel has.
You don't mount an operation like this without a lot of advance planning. If I were to speculate a bit, I'd guess that this whole thing was planned to neutralize Hezbollah ahead of a U.S. strike against Iran. Hezbollah was dumb enough to hand the Israelis a pretext, but Mini-Me and Dr. Evil would have found something else lacking that.

by Mutternich on Sat Jul 22nd, 2006 at 02:45:09 PM EDT
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It's not only about Syria and Iran...

...It's also about the U.S. magnanimously and generously "assisting reconstruction" of Lebanon's bombed-out infrastructure after the dust has settled.

We know who will get the contracts, don't we? :-)

by Mutternich on Sat Jul 22nd, 2006 at 07:35:42 AM EDT
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The TRUTH will prevail...

This conflict is one of an occupier (Israel) who is armed to the teeth with weapons that Americans pay for against a Palestinian civilian militia, Hezbollah (an entity that didn't exist before Sharon, the butcher of Beirut stormed into Lebanon in l982) and Syria, who wants its own occupied Golan Heights back.

Hezbollah has been trying for months to negotiate the release of several Lebanese that Israel currently holds. Hezbollah has repeatedly said that it wants Israel out of the occupied Shebbah Farms in the southern tip of Lebanon. It did not enter Israel to capture the soldier, it entered occupied territories. We keep hearing of one captured soldier, what about the 10,000
palestinian prisoners, some of them women and children that Israel holds, without charges for years? Nobody in MSM talks about them. Do you
blame their sons and daughters and fiance's for
wanting to strap bombs and take revenge, if thats the only hope they have??? IDF even shoots at kids throwing stones at them.
Israel is the thug on the block and always has been. Only sanctions will stop Israel.
The world is watching,public opinion is with the Palestinians and we are all made complicit by the failure of our governments to end Palestinian suffering.

The day of reckoning is coming soon. Olmert has
gone too far. I saw the Lebaneese Prime Minister in tears on TV today. Is this how Israel treats its neighbours and expects to live in peace?
Raised eyebrows!
by New Actor (New Actor) on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 10:37:43 AM EDT
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Once again, why do they hate us?

"...armed to the teeth with weapons that Americans pay for ..."

Or actually physically manufactured. That's a point not lost on the survivors.

With the U.S. losing more and more well-paying manufacturing jobs, more and more of the remaining ones are concentrated in the arms industries.

The work of our own hands.

by Mutternich on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 11:14:38 AM EDT
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: ------------------------------------------------------------

Also,

As Israel wages war on the Palestinian people and now the Lebanese people, Hezbollah may be betting that Lebanon as whole will be able to absorb the extreme limits of collective punishment - and in the end the resistance movement will still come out alive. Now that would be a lesson for the ages.

Raised eyebrows!
by New Actor (New Actor) on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 08:46:26 PM EDT
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What a disgusting response!

by Angelgabriel on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 05:57:37 PM EDT
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: ------------------------------------------------------------

My submission was directed at Stuigi.

and I'll say it agin, WHAT A Disgusting response!!!

by Angelgabriel on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 05:59:59 PM EDT
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This is disgusting!

I am utterly dismayed at your comment.
People like you will not add a iota to move peace forward. If you simply shut up it is one less warmonger pouring oil in the fire.

aljoschu
by aljoschu (Kosmopolit) on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 03:35:00 AM EDT
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One less terrorist

I guess that is you stuigi.. and all who has that filthy mind of yours..

Thats a Typical Zionist Jews for yall.
God created man to build not to destroy
by 3arabi on Thu Jul 27th, 2006 at 12:37:56 PM EDT http://www.palsteen.com/
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Israeli children...not targeted..the same manner

Mark, on what data are you baseing this statement? I have no doubt that Israel has killed more children than Hezbollah since they are going after Hezbollah sites, and they are bombing at 100 to 1 rate compared to Hezbollah's rockets. But I have seen no report that they are targeting children. As I understand it, they are warning, with pamplets, that civilians should clear an area that they plan to bomb. And they drop bombs that are GPS controlled to hit a specific location. Unfortunately they also hit civilians there or nearby, including children. Hezbollah's rockets are not GPS controlled and hence their accuracy is severely limited and hence pretty much indiscriminate. They hit what they hit.

Israel has not handled this right. I have no idea what they will gain with this except more of their citizens dead. It's a mess.

Marc, you are someone I respect and I will continue to respect. So help me to understand the reasoning/data behind your statement.

by Z man on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 09:23:45 AM EDT

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Warnings

Yes it is true that Israel is dropping leaflets warning civilians to get out of harm's way. But even foreign nationals are having difficulty leaving a country whose airport, bridges and roads ahve been bombed. And, by the way, the wonderful rescue of Americans by cruise ship is not so wonderful when you realize the rescued will be billed.
illegitimi non carborundum
by blabbermouth on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 10:03:24 AM EDT
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how do you know?

by sarao on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 10:05:51 AM EDT
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What?

That Isreal is dropping leaflets?

That the airport and other means of escape are gone?

That US citizens will have to pay their own bill for rescue?

The MSM, of course. Heard the last laat night or this am. Will post a reference when I find it.
illegitimi non carborundum
by blabbermouth on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 10:22:49 AM EDT
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how do you know

they'll be billed?

by sarao on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 10:26:10 AM EDT
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Go to

Go to Google News, and click on the article from the Duluth Tribune. The last paragraph states that they will have to repay the US government.
illegitimi non carborundum
by blabbermouth on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 10:32:08 AM EDT
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From the LA Times

The main U.S. evacuation plan involves a Pentagon-contracted cruise ship, the Orient Queen, due to arrive in Lebanon today to ferry people to Cyprus. The ship can carry about 750 passengers for the five-hour trip. Defense Department officials said other private ships were likely to be hired as well.

Americans have been told to wait for a telephone call that could come in hours -- or days. They've also been told they can't board a ship unless they've signed a contract agreeing to repay the U.S. government for the price of their evacuation.

illegitimi non carborundum
by blabbermouth on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 10:44:20 AM EDT
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how tacky

Yep! And the ones that can't pay are having to sign promissory notes. It's all over the news.
"You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you have to concentrate on." George W. Bush
by YUCA (msealesk@yahoo.com) on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 05:15:02 PM EDT
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yep,

that's pretty tacky...

by sarao on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 10:04:07 PM EDT
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TO is Wrong Here

TO's executive director says:

Quote: "Let it be said that Israeli children are not being targeted in this conflict in the same manner."

This statement implies that Hezbolah is attempting to avoid hitting children with their bombs and the Israelis want to hit (or don't care if they hit) children with their bombs. The evidence is directly to the contrary and TO's has provided zero basis to support TO's false statement. As Z points out, Israel actually dropped leaflets warning civilians to get away of the conflict area. Hezbolah's launch of rockets into Israel never gave any such warning.

Countless times Israel has shown it is willing to trade land for peace. In contrast, the Hezbolah has in its charter dedicated itself to the complete destruction of Israel.

Respectfully

by Garrett on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 12:09:19 PM EDT
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Garrett, this is a matter of interpretation

first of all, Hezbolah doesn't have the means to drop warning leaflets, no airplanes or helicopters. This action by Isael is a bogus attempt to propagandize pseudo humanitarian efforts while they bomb the hell out of Lebanon. We'll destroy your infrastructure, set you back 50 yrs., kill your innocents, but will give you fair warning to get out of the way of our might. Hezbollah doesn't have the technology to selectively target as Israel... there is no comparison. That's how I interpret the statement, not literally.
"We must take back our nation from all the people who think that anything that offends them should be removed." - Unknown American
by emah1 on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 12:22:46 PM EDT
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please give me a break...

not even the hizbollah would ever deny that it's aim is to kill civilians....

by sarao on Tue Jul 18th, 2006 at 10:05:05 PM EDT
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civilians!!

humm!.. I guess you never been to Palestinian occupied terretory which so called Israel now!
There are no civilians in there.. thats no #1
no#2.. Israeli warrned a village to leave it in 2 hours... while all bridges are destroyed and all way out is being destroyed.
In Palestine too.. the warned a family by calling the man's cellphone that they will destroy his house.. I mean what a fair action huh.. why to destroy my house in the 1st place?
you want me.. attack me. not my house.. am I WRONG HERE.. or am I from different world!!
and th