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Lamont or Lieberman?

By Scott Galindez

Mon Jul 24th, 2006 at 10:44:21 AM EDT :: Grassroots

Lamont or Lieberman?

Who is best for the Democratic Party? Well, it depends on who you ask.

If you ask the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), then Joe is their guy. If you ask the corporate donors who fund the party, Joe wins again. But if you ask the grass-roots activists, Ned wins hands down.

While the funding is important, Howard Dean showed that you can raise enough money from the grass roots if you excite them. Lamont is exciting the grass roots, so the DLC and the corporate donors aretrying to cut him down. Read my article "Hands Off Connecticut" and let me know what you think.


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I can't believe there isn't more coverage of this issue -- sure, everyone is talking about Lamont (which is great), but the DLC, and unfortunately, Clinton, our beloved icon of a Democrat whose policies could technically please Republicans, is also at fault here.  This has direct impact on those of us in NY who are currently being represented by Mrs. DLC.  

Or, am I wrong...
Flojoe
by flojoe (bcnhscollege@mac.com) on Mon Jul 24th, 2006 at 11:36:23 AM EDT http://www.saddleshoe.blogspot.com

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anyone who goes against the flow of money in this environment gets my vote

The money maintains the status quo and the classist influence of those that have the money.

PUBLIC money is still money.
The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. Edward R. Murrow
by Elegba (elegba@gmail.com) on Mon Jul 24th, 2006 at 11:38:06 AM EDT

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In an economy which uses money and not barter, I guess I would vote for using public money to fund elections and public money only.  It levels the playing field.
Flojoe
by flojoe (bcnhscollege@mac.com) on Mon Jul 24th, 2006 at 04:01:17 PM EDT http://www.saddleshoe.blogspot.com
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except Im not sure how you value connections like Clinton and with the Democratic or Republican power structure

even with level money the extra clout this brings is immeasurable

to the point where you dont even really stand a chance if they mobilize against you

and of course the administration of this apparatus is exempt from public funding laws and so represents the interests of the donors to a greater degree

so in essense even if two candidates have level bank accounts...the extra clout the rich brings easily sways the power structure and thereby the voters in most cases

Papa Joe

how to weigh cultural capital and the effects of solid capital

hmm
The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. Edward R. Murrow
by Elegba (elegba@gmail.com) on Mon Jul 24th, 2006 at 05:07:26 PM EDT
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In my mind that Lieberman even stands a chance speaks to unfortunate circumstances. Why is there even a horse race?
Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.
by lwelsch (LWelsch@gmail.com) on Mon Jul 24th, 2006 at 12:24:32 PM EDT http://home.comcast.net/~PoliticalThoughts/index.html
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the "Incumbent Party," a confederation of generally unpopular (3% approval rating) scalawags who are primarily driven to hold their positions of power and financial success, and have the money to do it. A non-PC congressional member like Cynthia McKinney will face the wrath of the elite, but someone who toes the line on things that matter, like extending Washington's power, will be supported and defended.

The modern-day Yankee Peddlers have given the Nutmeg State, not wood shavings purported to be nutmeg as in the past, but a bogus Democrat, a not-unusual creature on the national scene nowadays, like  the Blue-dog Dems in the House. So the grass roots will be trampled by Bill Clinton and all the other true believers, and, to mix a metaphor, the great ship USS Congress will not suffer any crew changes gladly.
-
"War is a racket . . . the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives."---Smedley Butler
by Don on Mon Jul 24th, 2006 at 12:55:40 PM EDT http://warisaracket.org/

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I look forward to "Lament for Lieberman." :-)

by Mutternich on Mon Jul 24th, 2006 at 01:08:02 PM EDT
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As I watch Lieberman fight for his political life against Lamont, I am beginning to wonder if we are about to witness the death of the Democratic Party as we know it. Here is the scenario, Lamont wins; Lieberman runs as an independent - Democrats such as Clintorn and Schumer support Lieberman as do members of the DLC. Lamont looses in the fall.

If a significant number of prominent democrats support Lieberman as an independent Senate candidate in the fall and Lamont loses the election; then I wonder how long liberals will stay in the party. Is this the beginning of the end for the oldest US political party?

Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.
by lwelsch (LWelsch@gmail.com) on Mon Jul 24th, 2006 at 09:12:03 PM EDT http://home.comcast.net/~PoliticalThoughts/index.html

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As I understand it, we are the only industrialized country that doesn't have a labor pary, or any party that represents the people, rather than business. In the media, is there a labor reporter? I don't have a TV, but I hear Lou Dobbs referred to--a financial reporter, that is corporate finances, not personal finances, I assume. The GNP (gross national product) increases, everybody cheers, but the unreported PDP (personal domestic product--I made that up, I had to) decreases. The stock market is tied to the GNP, not the PDP, so everything's fine.
By the way, even Barbara Boxer is heading for Connecticut for the Lieberman (we hope loserman) fundraiser. Oh woe is me.
-
"War is a racket . . . the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives."---Smedley Butler
by Don on Mon Jul 24th, 2006 at 10:48:35 PM EDT http://warisaracket.org/
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the more they stay the same

The TWO party system isnt enough to represent the interests of a nation this large

We trade stability for a McDonaldized political system run by the money behind it and the political clout of the owners.
The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. Edward R. Murrow
by Elegba (elegba@gmail.com) on Tue Jul 25th, 2006 at 08:56:27 AM EDT
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I keep getting requests to donate to candidates or causes because I once did.  I am dragging my feet out of confusion or a feeling that my choice is already well-funded or the opponent seems to be a sure loser.    Maybe we need to donate to Lamont as Liberman does not represent me.  A Lamont win might go a long way to changing the tactics of the Democratic Party.  

Unfortunately, the labor party does not exist here as it became synonoumour with the communists.  
illegitimi non carborundum
by blabbermouth on Wed Jul 26th, 2006 at 09:46:40 AM EDT

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Joe's record on the issues:

"Senator Lieberman is currently Ranking Member of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, which oversees much of the Department of Homeland Security, relations among various government agencies and departments, and a wide range of vital functions. He is also a member of the Environment and Public Works Committee; the Armed Services Committee, where he is Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on Airland Forces and sites on the Subcommittee on Emerging Threats and Capabilities; and the Small Business Committee."

http://www.joe2006.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=26

Joe's goals in office:

"Lieberman is a respected leader on strengthening and modernizing our nation's defenses, a prominent voice on foreign policy issues, and a champion of international human rights."

"Lieberman is an advocate for investing in our public schools, improving healthcare, safeguarding our environment, and making our government more effective, responsible and accountable to voters."

"Lieberman is dedicated to strengthening America's families and renewing our common values."

Of course bloggers have been accused of stirring the soup about Lieberman. MSNBC had quite a diatribe about how bloggers are attempting to pull the Democrats leftward.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14025016/

He's been endorsed by the AFL-CIO. He seldom votes with conservative business groups, with lower than a 10% average rating on supporting their interests.

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?
can_id=S0141103

His record on abortion varies from year to year. The National Chamber of Commerce only gives the Senator a 25-61% rating on his voting record from year to year. Civil rights to civil liberties issues bring Joe a 40-100% rating over the years. An even more telling rating is that given Joe by conservative interests. The highest rating he has attained is 40%. Most conservative groups give him a 0% to low single digit rating.

It is on Iraq where Joe has parted ways with the Democratic mainstream. Overall, Joe has a strong liberal, educational, and environmental record. Labor backs Joe. Farmers back Joe. But his stand on Iraq has blown him out of the Party mainstream, and the fury this has generated may cost him his seat.

That raises the question of what losing Lieberman might do in the Senate. The seniority he holds in many seats will be lost. His grasp of foreign affairs and his support of family issues would have to be replaced by Lamont with a learning and seniority curve that would have to begin from ground zero.

Is this in the interests of most Americans? I just don't know. I know that personally I am thoroughly dismayed by the warmongering of this government, and further dismayed by Lieberman's support of it. Whether or not this is an adequate basis for disrupting his Congressional service doesn't appear clear to me.

I don't really think Joe is Republican-lite. There are too many Democrats further to the right than he is. If the Left wants to flex its collective muscle and unseat him, the loss of his leadership role on committees and his ability to talk to this administration may weaken the Democrats' overall position in the Senate, which is not expected to go Democrat in November.

This is a situation calling for some less partial reflection. The impact of losing Lieberman in the Senate might be to weaken, rather than strengthen, the overall position of Democrats in Congress.

Contemplating lesser evilism is something we have come to accept in politics. Politics has been described as the art of the possible. If the Democrats want to optimize the best of all possible outcomes for the majority of Americans in this country, rather than focussing on one race with a high-ranking Senator who has offended us mightily with his pro-administration stance on Iraq, the Left may do well to back off on Joe.

I have contributed to the Lamont campaign. I was very enthusiastic to see this challenge to an imperial presidency and its running dogs. But there are so many destabilizing factors in America today such as the burgeoning deficit and the increasingly belligerent foreign policy, that I think we need experienced leaders with known records.

On these bases I have a growing concern about the Left's assault on Lieberman.
"The very future of this Republic may well rest on whether or not anyone can, or will, stop George W. Bush." George Harleigh
by stonehenge on Wed Jul 26th, 2006 at 11:11:18 AM EDT

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.
It's obvious you have put some thought into this issue and the points you raise are valid.

But I say the points you raise are the very reason to kick "poor old Joe" to the curb.

You said: "Contemplating lesser evilism is something we have come to accept in politics."

Yeah, well I for one am done with that. That is the essence of the Dem strategy for the last 15 years and it doesn't work.

It's also Joe's agenda, in my view. He is not only "Republican-lite" he is "Israel-Right-no-matter-what". .... he supports the war 1000% because it's good for Israel, in his view: IMHO.
And that's OK. It's just not where I want an opposition party to the neocons to go.

Dammit; we have to create a party that has the huevos to stand FOR something..... like an end to war as a solution to fabricated problems for starters.

To hell with Joe on this or that committee....so what Lamont may have to wing it and flub it and maybe even get some pointers from Ted Kennedy or Boxer.....it's TOTALLY worth it.

Joe was the FIRST one up and applauding at the SOTU address for support of the war and kisses the president after.....come on!!!!  You need to see the stains on his dress?

We can do better than Joe....and for the sake of the future, I feel we need to.
.

-9.00, -7.69 ... We may all put our pants on one leg at a time, but it's the ones that leave their zippers down ya gotta watch out for....
by brent (bonnyladd@hotmail.com) on Wed Jul 26th, 2006 at 04:27:12 PM EDT
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My conclusion about him came because of Joe's unending support of war. I wanted to raise all the caveats about unseating seniority and ongoing alliances forged over time, but in the end, too much politics as usual will really bring down the Democratic Party. Joe has undermined the Party by both his hawkishness and his frequent siding with the Administration over majority Democratic stands.

So it's out with the old, and in with the new.
"The very future of this Republic may well rest on whether or not anyone can, or will, stop George W. Bush." George Harleigh
by stonehenge on Thu Jul 27th, 2006 at 10:49:34 AM EDT
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Ho, Ho, Joe has to go!

It's time for a change and Lamont may be the one to facilitate change. Let's face it Joe is the personal darling of GWB and the right. His past accomplishments are in the past! He just plain in-effective for the Democrats.

Let the Democratic Party move forward with some new blood and new goals that are achievable at this time. And who knows what future may hold, but one will never know unless they are willing to risk and make changes.

by goldspik on Sat Jul 29th, 2006 at 12:04:49 PM EDT
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should be kicked out asap. Even if the smooch was just a PR stunt, he's bound to have picked up some nasty germs. Look what's happened with the poodle from Great Britain.

by WonderWoman on Sat Jul 29th, 2006 at 08:32:32 PM EDT
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I'm so sick of hearing about the importance of maintaining seniority in our legislative bodies - and all the glorious perks this affords to a legislator's home district or party.

The job of a US Senator should not be that of a stooge, even an effective stooge for hometown pork or party influence.

I would be so much more grateful to my home state Senators if they simply used their positions of power to speak out passionately and relentlessly against the madness of the Bush regime.  They could be nothing more than co-vice-chairs of the sub-committee on paperclip sorting.  All I ask is that they speak the truth out loud every day.

All this seniority nonsense is just another  pillar of the very tired propaganda campaign used to prop up the democracy-killing bi-partisan congressional incumbency racket.
 
Justice is mellow
by jeffuppy on Wed Jul 26th, 2006 at 09:52:22 PM EDT

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"The Delta fraternity has a long tradition of existence, to itself and to the community at large." -- Hoover, National Lampoon's Animal House

by Mutternich on Thu Jul 27th, 2006 at 04:07:38 PM EDT
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Read Dead Dem Walking by Rick Gell.
Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.
by lwelsch (LWelsch@gmail.com) on Thu Jul 27th, 2006 at 05:56:02 AM EDT http://home.comcast.net/~PoliticalThoughts/index.html
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"War is a racket . . . the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives."---Smedley Butler
by Don on Thu Jul 27th, 2006 at 09:23:37 PM EDT http://warisaracket.org/
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I haven't received you e-mail, but have somehow ended up confusing you with someone named Andy from Turkey via the anti-war site link.

Are you still with me on a project??

.

- Julie -- http://www.un.org/millenniumgoals Keep the promise, no excuses. www.one.org
by julieim on Fri Jul 28th, 2006 at 10:27:02 AM EDT
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the Dems should have kicked "Lie"berman to the curb right after the 2000 election.  As far as I'm concerned he threw the fight.
"We must take back our nation from all the people who think that anything that offends them should be removed." - Unknown American
by emah1 on Fri Jul 28th, 2006 at 02:41:35 PM EDT
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Lamont vs Lieberman = Gamera vs. Godzilla?
Zhu Bajie
by zhubajie (zhubajie12001@yahoo.com) on Thu Jul 27th, 2006 at 06:37:39 AM EDT
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the people do not agree with Senator Lieberman part of whose constituency agree with his foreign policy and backing of the
president. Joe Lieberman is out of step with his party and i hope lamont wins. he deserves it
MURZI
murzi
by MURZI (murzi) on Thu Jul 27th, 2006 at 08:45:38 PM EDT
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I hate to put the two of them in the same sentence.  Jack Javits was much more consistently liberal.  But, like Lieberman, he reached a point where veneration for his record was confused with admiration for his stance on the issues.  There was a wonderful woman named Elizabeth Holtzman who ran against him.  Excellent politics, excellent mind.  But, Jack wouldn't give up even when he lost the primary and so, as we all know, both he and Holtzman lost, and NY ended up with Senator Alfonse D'Amato, a Republican fairly right of center.  At the time, he felt like an extremist.  I recently heard him say (on his radio spots which he co-hosts on Bloomberg radio with none other than Ed Koch) that he is anti-choice, but would never vote to overturn Roe v. Wade.  Maybe he DID learn something in the Senate.  Or, maybe that's easy to say on the radio.

Whatever Al gained, NY lost terribly because Jack Javits refused to concede to Holtzman, which was especially cruel as they weren't far apart politically.  A lot of people voted for Javits anyway because of his longstanding record. And unlike Lieberman, he was a dynamic persona in NY and, probably, a lot of people voted for him just out of pure respect for who he was.  I was 12, at the time, but I voted for him in a mock election in school for those very reasons.

And of course, the horrible irony was Javits died not too long after the election.

That's a digression, however.  The fact of the matter is, voting for Joe Lieberman was like putting Livan Hernandez in to pitch Game 7 of the World Series because he had overcome so many struggles in his life.  If you don't follow baseball,  Livan Hernandez, like his more famous cousin, known as El Duque (now of the Mets), defected from Cuba and risked his life to do so.  That, however, was no assurance he could win a ballgame -- especially as Kirk Reuter was available.  Reuter had shut out the opposing team in a previous game.  And, when Hernandez gave up four runs immediately, Reuter finished the game.  Of course, it was too late, as the opposing team pitched someone who had shut Hernandez' team down.

All of this is to say, whatever power Lieberman has, he is no longer potent.  Let's not blow the real "World Series".
Flojoe
by flojoe (bcnhscollege@mac.com) on Sat Jul 29th, 2006 at 10:01:56 PM EDT http://www.saddleshoe.blogspot.com
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To clarify my comment (Joe..meet Jack)

Jacob "Jack" Javits was the Republican Senator from NY from 1956 - 1981.  He is STILL so venerated in my memory that I remembered him as a Democrat.  He lost the Republican nomination to D'Amato and then ran on the LIBERAL party line, defeating Holtzman's chances.  It is still true that he and Holtzman weren't far apart.

Wherever you are, Senator, I apologize for mentioning Joe Lieberman in the same sentence.  I do believe, however, that you might see my point now and, in retrospect, would've rather seen Holtzman win.  

At my own peril, I am going to add that had Holtzman won, we probably would have had Holtzman and Schumer as our Senators from NY, with no room, alas, for Hilary Clinton.  There's another pity.  Schumer and Holtzman are both formidable liberal intellectuals.  I don't know what Hilary is, at all.  
Flojoe
by flojoe (bcnhscollege@mac.com) on Sat Jul 29th, 2006 at 10:20:46 PM EDT http://www.saddleshoe.blogspot.com
[ Parent ]

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< The Ballad of Dumb George (110 comments) | Impeachment: Why and How (47 comments) >

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