TruthOut - Town Meeting
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Weekend Open Thread

By TruthOut

Sat Aug 5th, 2006 at 02:47:08 PM EDT :: General

All yours.


Display:
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I'm off to Ground Zero at Naval Submarine Base Bangor in Kitsap County, Washington.  We will be standing in silent vigil Sunday morning, August 6th at 8:15am to bear witness to the time the atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima in 1945.

On Monday morning, August 7th some of us will bear witness and keep the peace while others will do direct action to symbolically close the Bangor base.  We will safely and peacefully obstruct traffic leading to the base, interfering with the proliferation of nuclear weapons.  I plan to be arrested and once again sing my heart out all along the way - especially in jail.  The acoustics are GREAT!
~

"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." Arundhati Roy
by SlowDown on Sat Aug 5th, 2006 at 07:26:43 PM EDT

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Well, hopefully someday I will.

Best wishes -- I'm rooting for you.
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." -- Mahatma Ghandi
by earthymom on Sat Aug 5th, 2006 at 07:33:44 PM EDT
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Please let us know how things go. Your last report was a treasure.

by WonderWoman on Sat Aug 5th, 2006 at 09:03:06 PM EDT
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Good luck. And this is a great thing you are doing. Anyone who says otherwise is itching for a fight.
Peacedog
by Peacedog (louisrue@charter.net) on Sat Aug 5th, 2006 at 11:40:23 PM EDT
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I promise not to scratch it!
~
"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." Arundhati Roy
by SlowDown on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 08:51:01 AM EDT
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As you sing all the way to the slammer.  Meanwhile, I'll celebrate all the AMERICAN lives that were saved by hitting the Japs and forcing them to surrender - an event that never would have happened.  We'd still be fighting Japan today -- instead of Murder Muslims.

Like the Muslims, they started it -- we ended it, on our terms.  God bless America and to hell with all the freaks that defend global terrorism with the outrageous and indefensible rebuttals.  Obviously, most of you on this forum are both students and followers of Goebbels..Spread the lies until they subvert the truth.  Who cares if you have any proof?

If you hate America, no one is keeping you here -- please leave.  The Cindy Sheehan's of the world do have their place, as long as we don't have to see or hear them (like Cuba, Iran or North Korea -- all good places to live for people on this forum).

Adios, um beijo, tchau...sianara!

by RUSERIOUS (melissa14632@yahoo.com) on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 01:43:17 PM EDT
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We love you too.

Cassandra
by Cassandra on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 02:25:36 PM EDT
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Boy they must be getting nervous.   Seems like they're start'n to sweat bullets as we approach November!

by July17th on Mon Aug 7th, 2006 at 02:11:10 AM EDT
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November holds nothing for us unless we can somehow figure out how to put into office people who will change the voting system to make our votes actually worth something - with the current voting system....otherwise, why bother?  

Let them sweat over nothing - we already knew they were dumb!  
"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Tue Aug 8th, 2006 at 01:07:26 AM EDT
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"We must take back our nation from all the people who think that anything that offends them should be removed." - Unknown American
by emah1 on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 04:39:31 PM EDT
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things are not going their way. Shia's control
Iraq, Iran stronger than ever, Hezbullah gaining
support across the Muslim world. North Korea
holding onto its nukes.  Have I covered the
Axis of Evil, rogue states?  What have they
achieved?? Smoking out Bin Laden forgotten?  btw, there hasn't been a new bin laden tape manufactured the past 10 days...will we see
that mujahudeen crusaderpop up on or TV screens telling us who we should vote for this November???

When will the BS STOP?  
Raised eyebrows!
by New Actor (New Actor) on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 06:03:19 PM EDT
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Where did this one come from?  God forbid we prefer diplomacy over war.  God forbid we look for alternatives and oppose bloodshed.  God forbid we defend ourselves by keeping the enemies to a minimum - for that is truley a sign that we hate our country, eh?  God - where do these fools come from?  
"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 06:17:44 PM EDT
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The minions of the arms contractors have idiots like that guy so brainwashed he'll never be able to distinguish excrement from shoe polish, so we waste our time in responding to him.
Peacedog
by Peacedog (louisrue@charter.net) on Mon Aug 7th, 2006 at 01:20:56 AM EDT
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I hear you!  They won't, you are right.  Some here still have hope that they will.  So they keep trying.  
"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Mon Aug 7th, 2006 at 11:48:31 AM EDT
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you have to actually win people over...
The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. Edward R. Murrow
by Elegba (elegba@gmail.com) on Mon Aug 7th, 2006 at 12:12:40 PM EDT
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Those who approach with a wish to advance their own views with intelligent factually-based argument may be won over to some extent and indeed may change my view to some extent in terms
of a fuller understanding of an issue. However, people who make personal attacks on us are not the type to be open-minded enough to change. They are most likely of the authoritarian personality type described by John Dean in his latest book: Conservatives Without Conscience. It's alarming that he estimates them to constitute about 23 percent of the American population. These are the type who made up the ranks of the SS in the Third Reich. Part of the training for SS officers was that they had the trainee raise a dog from a pup and then s/he would be ordered to strangle the dog. If s/he failed this test s/he was out of the SS. I wonder what percentage of the German population was of the authoritarian personality type when the Nazis came to power.
Peacedog
by Peacedog (louisrue@charter.net) on Mon Aug 7th, 2006 at 07:16:29 PM EDT
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have different levels of tolerance for the foolish and children...

If you cant of dont want to wast your time perhaps Ill try. :)

I am known to have an abundance of patience.

The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. Edward R. Murrow
by Elegba (elegba@gmail.com) on Mon Aug 7th, 2006 at 07:45:51 PM EDT
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and then there is the evil, heartless, rat bastards who carry hell around with them -everywhere they go - tolerant of them? umph...NEVER!
"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Tue Aug 8th, 2006 at 01:12:50 AM EDT
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I hear you...and we could wait until they just die..

But the probem is that they control the schools where they are educating a new generation of evil.
The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. Edward R. Murrow
by Elegba (elegba@gmail.com) on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 03:11:12 PM EDT
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So we have to kill them...Big DEAL  ;)  
"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Thu Aug 10th, 2006 at 04:50:34 AM EDT
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We only have to organize better and be more active. They are very active politically, so we have to get after it. This is why I'm trying to encourage everyone to come to Camp Democracy if at all possible. Did you check out those websites?
Peacedog
by Peacedog (louisrue@charter.net) on Sun Aug 20th, 2006 at 08:27:06 PM EDT
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Good luck!
Peacedog
by Peacedog (louisrue@charter.net) on Tue Aug 8th, 2006 at 01:49:05 AM EDT
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and I feel sick reading about it!  Who could?  Who would?
"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Tue Aug 8th, 2006 at 01:10:54 AM EDT
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I believe the only people of any significant numbers who would do that are are of this personality type. This is why they are so dangerous. They will do anything, no matter how immoral, unethical, illegal, to please their leaders. The Bush junta couldn't impose their terrorist torture state war policies on the world without them. i would be quite interested to learn of any cross-cultural and international studies indicating the relative prevalance of this type in various societies and indications of how they are formed. By the way, such types are almost exclusively right-wingers in the U.S. almost a quarter of the population. In the Stalinist Soviet Union however, they were the blind followers of Stalin. They would seem to differ from the anti-social personality type in their need for the sanction of what they deem to be the established authority to justify their unethical conduct, while the anti-social type accepts the legitimate authority of no one.
Peacedog
by Peacedog (louisrue@charter.net) on Tue Aug 8th, 2006 at 01:47:38 AM EDT
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Start with Erich Fromm's book ESCAPE FROM FREEDOM.  He was a psychologist/philospher who attempted to answer the very questions you raise at the end of WWII.  He wrote a lot of books, but this is, in my opinion, the 1st one to read.

Some of his former students went on to do futher research, too.
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." -- Mahatma Ghandi
by earthymom on Tue Aug 8th, 2006 at 01:58:28 AM EDT
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I read that years ago, but dont recall him using data from cross-cultural or cross-national studies. Whether such data is included or not though I'm sure it is an excellent source for  greater understanding of the authoritarian personality and conditions that make it quite visible. I dont recall data that pointed to what conditions facilitate the development of such personalities in the first place. It's been a long time since I read that though, so I'll have to pick it up again. Thanks for the reccomentation.
Peacedog
by Peacedog (louisrue@charter.net) on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 12:40:28 AM EDT
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And here is something for your "noodle".

And God allowed the mission of the ?Arabs? to succeed, he Blessed their mission...

Hmmm, Sounds like you can do without such "Blessings", or did God try to show something to his favorite team?

Adios, um beijo, tchau, houdoe...sianara!

by TranceAm on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 09:33:26 PM EDT
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That's what scares you, isn't it?

by Mutternich on Mon Aug 7th, 2006 at 08:46:39 AM EDT
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You miss the point regarding the demonstrations on August 6 (and 9).  I think we have to keep that memory alive and vivid so it never happens again!  

Shades of "Dr. Stangelove"!!!
illegitimi non carborundum
by blabbermouth on Mon Aug 7th, 2006 at 09:49:58 AM EDT
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Are you sure that you were sober when you wrote this?  George Bush should have stayed out of Iraq
as his father advised him.  He didn't listen and
now we are paying the price. I can only conclude you are a biased Republican who has been brainwashed by
all of their propaganda.  By the way, show us the
proof of what you said in what I am replying to.
Bob
by bomar1224 (bomar1224@hotmail.com) on Mon Aug 7th, 2006 at 02:17:11 PM EDT
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"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 02:45:08 PM EDT
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bon voyage and Godspeed. This is one job worth lying down on.

by Mutternich on Mon Aug 7th, 2006 at 08:45:04 AM EDT
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Hope all goes well.
.

- Julie -- http://www.un.org/millenniumgoals Keep the promise, no excuses. www.one.org
by julieim on Mon Aug 7th, 2006 at 09:38:21 AM EDT
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"We must take back our nation from all the people who think that anything that offends them should be removed." - Unknown American
by emah1 on Sat Aug 5th, 2006 at 08:15:25 PM EDT
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Israel Said Using DU,
Poison Gas On Lebanese
By Wayne Madsen
Excluvise To WMR
7-17-6
Our intelligence sources in Lebanon have reported to us exclusively that Israel is now using poison gas and depleted uranium shells on towns in the south of Lebanon. Residents of the small village of Kasarshoba became violently ill, experiencing severe vomiting, after the Israelis hit the village with poison gas. In other cases, underground shelters in southern Lebanon were hit by Israeli depleted uranium shells. Our sources also report that the entire southern suburbs of southern Beirut, with a population of 800,000, have been totally depopulated. Israel has targeted thousands of civilian homes for destruction.

Meanwhile, Israeli government spokespersons and Bush administration officials took to the Sunday morning talking head programs in Washington to defend Israel's barbarous actions. The networks failed to present the views of Lebanese government spokespersons. Israel's and the Bush administration's line is that Israeli attacks are "precision targeted." Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice pointedly refused to criticize Israel on ABC's This Week.

Israeli Kadima (ex-Likud) Prime Minister Ehud Olmert joins Ariel Sharon in annals of Israeli leaders who committed war crimes in Lebanon.

American media is failing to report that the Israeli attacks on Lebanon and Gaza, like the U.S. attacks in Iraq, are violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention and Additional Protocols governing military attacks on civilians by governments that are parties to the conventions:

Civilians are not to be subject to attack. This includes direct attacks on civilians and indiscriminate attacks against areas in which civilians are present.

There is to be no destruction of property unless justified by military necessity.
Warring parties must not use or develop biological or chemical weapons

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/


by WonderWoman on Sat Aug 5th, 2006 at 10:08:37 PM EDT

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I'm new here.  And while I've had a politiblog on the net for 2+ years as an outlet for my hotility and tried to defend the GLBT communities & Peacemongers, I've always liked coming here to see behind the spinzones.

Three years and hundreds of thousands dead overseas.  And yet he claims we can't pull out until we complete the mission.  "MISSION FAILED!"

Six years and no favorable results from 1600 Pensylvania Avenue, only failed attempts to pass Racist, Sexist & Anti-Gay based laws and One Veto that will cause friends of mine with incurable disease to die, all in the name of his little tin god.  How in the name of Anubis and Hecate can he say that Stem Cells are an abomination?

In two years or less, can we get a verdict of "Guilty"?

You tell me.

You friendly neighbourhood Angry Bleeding Heart
http://dysprod.blogspot.com
"Speak The Word.  The Word Is All Of Us! -Queensrÿ che"

by dysprod1975 (dysprod1975@yahoo.com) on Sat Aug 5th, 2006 at 10:35:59 PM EDT http://dysprod.blogspot.com

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Raised eyebrows!
by New Actor (New Actor) on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 07:28:32 AM EDT
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The second Kana massacre and the New Middle East

By Noureddine Ait Messaoudene

Thank you Mr Robert Fisk for putting a name on the bodies of our dead ("The Independent" 31-07-2006). Can you imagine that even this action that would seem so trivial in other circumstances takes out a great significance with regards to the tragic events of the Israeli aggression against Lebanon. No! The women, the elderly, the children, the "civilian casualties", the torn out bodies, the smashed limbs and the burnt corpses are not those of dummies or some lifeless beings.  

Yes! They have names like any human being, they have a history... they had a life, souvenirs, moments of joy and moments of sadness. But then, look at their names: Hussein, Abbas, Ali, Mehdi, Zeinab, Fatima Zohra... All of this sounds very Shiite for those who know the region. Hezballah supporters or at least would be supporters. Enough of a reason for making them a target of the mighty Israeli Air Force.  

I look at the horrible pictures of the Kana second massacre (we still have in mind the 1996 massacre), read different articles and comments and try to make a sense out of all this chaos. I try my best to hold my tears as stare again and again at the dusty faces of all these innocent children who were buried alive as what they thought was shelter was directly and deliberately hit by an American made missile fired from an American made warplane piloted by an Israeli obeying the instructions of the Israeli Defence Forces. But I go back to your article and read the names of these little dusty bodies; my tears cannot be held anymore. Mehdi Hashem aged seven, Abbas Al Shalhoub aged one... and so many others. Was Mehdi asleep when the missile struck the house and turned it in a collective tomb? The little Abbas might have been crying for milk, milk is rather rare due to the Israeli embargo on South Lebanon. By the way, the IDF even bombarded a milk factory near Beyrouth.

This time, the crime is so ugly and at such a great scale of horror that even the most conciliatory media could not "asepticize" the images. Many Algerian newspapers, for example, used a terribly moving picture of the petrified body of a small baby with a pacifier still hanging on his clothes. Surrealistic world in such circumstances: "pacifier". After all, this is all part of the "pacification" work of Israel.  Condemnations are fusing from everywhere and from every part, even close allies to Israel and from within Israel itself Israel.

The response of the Israeli officials? Just take a look at the attitude of Dan Gillerman, the Israeli ambassador to the UN, stating with incredible cynicisms that the victims were told to leave prior to the attack, that it is Hizballah who is to blame because he used the victims, his own people and supposedly supporters, as human shields and that at least Israel "regrets" the death of innocent children, which Hizballah never did. Wrong Mrs Gillerman! Hizballah did express his deepest regrets to the death of Israeli Arab children and convey his condolences to their parents. But this only confirms that these children were not considered as fully Israelis.  

What's even more terrible about this now well known Israeli rhetoric, the same which is used for the situation in Gaza and the Palestinian territories, is this vicious attempt to make the victim guilty of its own death. According to the Israelis, the 37 children of Kana and the other 750 or so civilians killed in Lebanon are guilty at least on three levels. They did not comply with the Israeli orders of leaving their homes and villages. They supported and backed Hizballah. They were part, willingly or unwillingly, of Hizballah strategy of an "asymmetrical" warfare where they served as "predictable collateral losses to be shown as proof of the inhuman behaviour of Israel". No, I am not kidding or "pushing the cork too far". We have already heard this kind of insanity in the mouth of a very high ranking American military officer when an inmate of Guantanamo committed suicide.  

Amidst all this mayhem, the strongest and most lucid political statement that was made came in the worlds of Nejwah Shelhub, a survivor of the Kana massacre: "Why does the world do this to us?"(Reported in R. Fisk's article in "The Independent" 31-07-2006).

It summarizes the whole situation of despair and distress of Lebanon because it points out the bottom line: Lebanon is facing the whole world and there is no acceptable explanation or justification to the mortification it is enduring!

Indeed, when the sole superpower of the world, the United States, is so blindly backing Israel in its criminal actions against the whole people and the whole land of Lebanon then it's the whole world that Lebanon is facing.  

When the European Union is either completely aligned with or completely powerless in front of the United States, then it's the whole world that Lebanon is facing.  

When the United Nations cannot even issue a resolution condemning Israel for such a horrible war crime as the Kana massacre, let aside imposing a truce or a ceasefire, when it is incapable of condemning Israel for the killing of its own peacekeeping men, then it's the whole world that Lebanon is facing.    

When even some of the Arab governments take Hizballah as the sole responsible of the whole situation because of his so called "adventurous" action and are not capable of issuing a simple common statement in support of Lebanon and against the Israeli methodical destruction of Lebanon, then it's the whole world that Lebanon is facing.  

When it goes to the point where some so called Muslim scholars -thank God that it is from one single country- issue a fatwa forbidding any support to the resistance in Lebanon because it is Shiite, then it's the whole world that Lebanon is facing.  

Who can answer Nedjwa Shelhub and all the Lebanese people who feel so lonely these days? Let us not be fooled by the 48 hours suspension of the bombing announced by Israel. As I am writing these lines, news are coming about Israeli warplanes striking a civilian vehicle in Dors. Incidentally, these are among the civilians who obeyed the Israeli orders of fleeing their homes. The urgency is to call for an immediate ceasefire NOW!! It is the responsibility of every one of us. Nobody can claim that he did not see the dozens of civilians killed every day, the blown out houses, the destroyed bridges, the desolation, the despair. Following a ceasefire and only after the madness of the killing is stopped, all issues can be discussed.

At this point, I must express my deepest conviction about some of the numerous aspects of the situation in the Middle East. Because we have to keep in mind that what is going on in Lebanon cannot be isolated from what is going in Gaza where almost the same situation is endured by the battered Palestinians and in the whole region.    

The awesome and disproportionate military superiority of Israel at the regional scale, doubled with the blind and unconditional support of the United States is one of the key problems of the Middle East crisis. There has to be some kind of a balance of power. It is very unfortunate to express it this way but one has to have the frankness to express it: the very logic and strategy followed until now by Israel needs a "balance of terror", a "deterrence" capacity against the systematic resort to "disproportionate" aggressions or retaliations.  This is the only way left for bringing Israel to an acceptable compromise with all the Arabs, especially the Palestinians, and that does not leave it freehanded in destroying its neighbours every time a problem arises.      

The West, in general but particularly meaning western governments, has to abandon the dogma of the moral superiority of Israel over the Arabs altogether, the myth of the only democracy in the Middle East that stands as the ultimate barrier of the "Civilized World" against the threat of "Muslim Terror". The Western powers have to come back to a more balanced view where the different protagonists are treated as equally "valued" parties in a conflict that has to be resolved through negotiation and compromise. But a compromise that does not wipe out the whole history of the conflict and try to impose an "accomplished fact" achieved solely through military superiority and so called moral superiority in the name of an eternal "divine right of Israel to unilaterally define its borders and then defend them".            

In the end, I would also like to add that we might be witnessing the painful birth of a New Middle East, but it surely not the one that Mrs Condoleezza Rice and all the neoconservatives have foreseen and are thinking about. My feeling is that all these people and their very sophisticated think-tanks are missing a lot of essential questions. What is more dramatic about this New Middle East that we see shaping out right now is that its contours are drawn with real blood. But blood can never be a resilient kind of ink. As it dries, the drawing might come out very different from what was intended.          

Raised eyebrows!
by New Actor (New Actor) on Sat Aug 5th, 2006 at 11:28:54 PM EDT

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Awesom and disproportionate military superiority A key  problem in the Middle East. Let me define the problem. A country and its leadership allow one of the largest terrorist organizations in the world to go into business in their country. Actually they are allowed to completely take over the entire southern third of your country and you claim to have seen nothing.

The terrorists are allowed to build sophisticated, fortified bunkers and you did not see any heavy equipment building them. Must have slept through that. You allow the Hezbollah terrorists to move into many of your towns and villages, including the complete takeover of one of the largest neighborhoods in Beirut, Then they are happily allowed to build numerous, complex command and control centers ... and you claim ignorance. Concrete bunkers, missile launchers, stockpiled weapons. They must have done that when leadership was asleep or on vacation.

You allow the terrorists to store these weapons, bombs and rockets in your basements. You turn a blind's eye when they carry arms into your restaurants, stores and buildings. Yet you call yourself an "innocent civilian."

You sleep with dogs, you wake up with fleas. You sleep with terrorists, rockets and missiles, you may not wake up.

by Right (vovo800@aol.com) on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 12:05:00 AM EDT
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Let me repeat for the deaf and the blind what I think Sirius 99 kind of laid out on another thread here...  

"All the jibber-jabber about dis-arming Hezbullah is nothing but smoke, mirrors and moral escape routes. No one will effectively "dis-arm"  Hezbullah.It is fairly clear that if "disarming" anyone is ever accomplished, the wrong people who want guns will somehow manage to have them.  Hezbullah is no different.  How many times have Americans, Northern Irish militanta, African and Afghan warlords and militants, and so many other similar groups been "disarmed?"  If there is a formula somewhere for this, let's apply it to Iraq!

What is obvious is someone wants to engage  the US with Syria  and Iran. But, the US doesn't have the military capacity to field an effective baseball team right now and Israel  does not have the conventional military resources to take on Syria and Iran.   Besides, Israel alone, could not bear the heat of condemnation from the rest of the world, if they did embark on such unilateral activities, so they need not only US approval, but active US participation.  

Tactically, their only option is to play and manipulate the Lebanon/Hezbullah and the Palestine Issues to the hilt to create what may be used as raison d'etre.  Talk terms, conditions, pre-conditions, all jawbone, in an attempt to deny blame and plead necessity of circumstance."

Have you got it Right???
Raised eyebrows!
by New Actor (New Actor) on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 12:52:37 AM EDT
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  1.  As of 3 August the Israeli military killed 30 Lebanese soldiers -- bombed some Lebanese military installations including a barracks.  They say they want the Lebanese army to control the South but that is smoke and mirrors.  They want to disarm Lebanon period.  This war looks more and more like a war against LEBANON, not a war against Hezbollah.

  2.  Lebanon has the right to defend itself.

  3.  I agree with NA's comments

"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." -- Mahatma Ghandi
by earthymom on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 01:07:12 AM EDT
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is on the way
By Ashraf Khalil
Los Angeles Times

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - A man with an Israeli accent called Omar Mamluke on his cell phone just before midnight and asked for him by name.
"You have just a few minutes to get out of the house," the man said. An Israeli missile was about to hit.
"I asked if he was joking, and he told me: 'The Israeli Defense Forces don't joke,' " Mamluke recalled.
Mamluke, a police officer, wasted no time; he had heard what happened to others in Gaza who had received such calls. He gathered up his two wives and 15 children, and they ran out of the house in their nightclothes, yelling for their neighbors to do the same.
The missile struck within half an hour, lifting Mamluke's house in the air, sending the foundation columns across the street. But no one was hurt, which the Israeli army says is the point of the phone calls.
The Israeli military, which launched campaigns in the Gaza Strip and Lebanon after soldiers were captured last month in border incursions, says it does its best to warn civilians of impending military action.
Its warnings to civilians to leave southern Lebanon are at the center of controversy over the air strike early Sunday in the village of Qana that killed almost 60 people, many of them women and children.
Although many have fled the region, some say they are afraid to travel roads that have been bombed by Israeli planes. The sick or injured, the very young and the elderly sometimes cannot travel, Lebanese say.
Israeli officials have suggested that, after several warnings, those who remain behind are responsible for their own fate.
"Those who stay have apparently decided to take the risk, or are being held by Hezbollah, which has accepted the risk on their behalf," Brig. Gen. Alon Friedman, deputy head of the army's northern command headquarters, said last week. "We have no intention of hitting innocent civilians and will do all possible to avoid harming them, but the fighting has a price."
In Gaza, where the military began issuing specific warnings in recent weeks, the practice has not won many over. Few Palestinians accept the idea that Israel really is trying to limit civilian deaths.
At best, the warnings are decried as cynical attempts to portray the military campaigns in a better light. Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh calls it psychological warfare.
"They just want to sow fear and confusion among the people," Haniyeh said.
Although Palestinians report that dozens of warnings have been received in the last two weeks, only a handful of buildings have been hit.
Israeli army officials are tight-lipped about the practice, but the official daily updates of army attacks on suspected Gaza weapons factories and warehouses invariably mention steps taken to warn residents and limit civilian casualties.
"It is a method that's being used to prevent the harming of innocent civilians," said one army spokeswoman, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Calls have also targeted official buildings such as the main Gaza City courthouse and the ambulance dispatch center at Khan Younis Hospital, said Iyad Nasr, spokesman for the International Committee of the Red Cross. Neither has been hit.
"It's still collective punishment," he said. "Dozens of families have been informed and have evacuated their homes."
The first known case of a pre-strike warning call came July 23, targeting the Gaza City home of Mohammed al-Sheik Dib. In that case, neighbors generally acknowledged that Sheik Dib was a ranking member of Islamic Jihad and that rockets probably were being stored in the house.
Other, less personal forms of warnings have also been used. Leaflets have been dropped onto Gaza towns. Last week, Khan Younis residents answered the phone and heard a recorded warning message. The Israeli army also has broken in on the frequency of the Hamas radio station to broadcast warnings.

Raised eyebrows!
by New Actor (New Actor) on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 07:38:36 AM EDT
[ Parent ]

------------------------------------------------------------
of destroying Mamluke's house?

I'm glad no one was injured, but now the poor guy and his 2 wives and 15 kids are homeless.  
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." -- Mahatma Ghandi
by earthymom on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 04:51:53 PM EDT
[ Parent ]

------------------------------------------------------------
the use of violence or threats to coerce or intimidate especially for political purposes. 2)
The state of fear and submission so produced. 3)government or resistance to government by means of fear.

Love how you tell us about people who turn a blind eye.  I wonder if yours is conscious or not?  
"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 04:28:29 AM EDT
[ Parent ]

------------------------------------------------------------
I must have been sleeping too and somehow forgot that terrorism is OK as long as it's practiced by the U.S. British, or Israeli governments. Ooops, I also forgot we dont call it terrorism in those cases. I also forgot that the term was originally coined to describe government killing in the Reign of Terror of the French Revolution. But of course all these memories should be dispatched into the memory hole in the "Brave New World" of the neocons. I wish the US and Israeli governments would get honest and admit that it's not the Defense Department or the Israeli Defense Forces but the Department of War and the Israeli War Forces.
Peacedog
by Peacedog (louisrue@charter.net) on Mon Aug 7th, 2006 at 05:07:36 AM EDT
[ Parent ]
------------------------------------------------------------
and here's one ingredient not much talked about so far:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HH05Ak01.html

"...This would put Israel, assuming for a moment that the Israel Defense Forces' operations prove ultimately successful, in control of the Litani River, thus fulfilling Israel's founding fathers' dream, stretching back to Chaim Weizmann, head of the World Zionist Organization, who in 1919 declared the river 'essential to the future of the Jewish national home.'"

by Mutternich on Mon Aug 7th, 2006 at 09:00:11 AM EDT
[ Parent ]

------------------------------------------------------------
Conn. Race Could Be Democratic Watershed
Loss by Lieberman May Embolden Critics of War

By Dan Balz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, August 6, 2006; A01

FARMINGTON, Conn., Aug. 5 -- The passion and energy fueling the antiwar challenge to Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman in Connecticut's Senate primary signal a power shift inside the Democratic Party that could reshape the politics of national security and dramatically alter the battle for the party's 2008 presidential nomination, according to strategists in both political parties.

A victory by businessman Ned Lamont on Tuesday would confirm the growing strength of the grass-roots and Internet activists who first emerged in Howard Dean's presidential campaign. Driven by intense anger at President Bush and fierce opposition to the Iraq war, they are on the brink of claiming their most significant political triumph, one that will reverberate far beyond the borders here if Lieberman loses.

An upset by Lamont would affect the political calculations of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), who like Lieberman supported giving Bush authority to wage the Iraq war, and could excite interest in a comeback by former vice president Al Gore, who warned in 2002 that the war could be a grave strategic error. For at least the next year, any Democrat hoping to play on the 2008 stage would need to reckon with the implications of Lieberman's repudiation.

Even backers of the 2000 Democratic vice presidential nominee are now expecting this scenario. Two public polls in the past three days show Lamont with a lead of at least 10 percentage points.

Although there are reasons beyond Lieberman's strong support for the war and what critics say is his accommodating stance toward Bush that have put him in trouble, the results will be read largely through the prism of what they say about Iraq and Bush's popularity.

Should Lieberman lose, the full ramifications are far from certain. One may be to signal immediate problems for Bush and the Republicans in November, but another could be to push Democrats into a more partisan, antiwar posture, a prospect that is already adding powerful new fuel to a four-year-long intraparty debate over Iraq.

Strategists say the Connecticut race has rattled the Democratic establishment, which is virtually united behind the three-term incumbent's candidacy, and will force an uneasy accommodation with the newest, volatile power center within the party.

"This sends a message to all Democratic officeholders," said Robert L. Borosage of the liberal Campaign for America's Future. "You're going to have a much tougher Democratic Party."

That could be felt most acutely by Clinton, who polls show is the early front-runner for the 2008 nomination and who has drawn criticism from what are known as net-roots activists for opposing a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq. Clinton appears to have gotten the message, as she demonstrated with sharp questioning of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld at a Senate hearing on Thursday.

The Connecticut race may be seen as an intensification of the partisan, polarized politics of the Bush era. Lieberman is paying a price for being an advocate of bipartisanship.

As a result, a loss on Tuesday could generate more demand for a strongly anti-Bush, antiwar candidate in the Democratic primaries. Several are ready to run, including Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.), former senator John Edwards (N.C.) and Sen. Russell Feingold (Wis.), the only one of the three to vote against the war in 2002.

None, however, may be as attractive to the grass-roots activists as Gore. He has said he cannot conceive of circumstances that would put him in the race. But he may be coaxed to reconsider if the sentiment for him grows after the November midterm elections.

Republicans are already seeking to exploit a possible victory by Lamont as a sign that Democrats are moving too far to the left on national security issues. "They want retreat -- under the guise of 'reducing the U.S. footprint in Iraq,' " William Kristol writes in the latest issue of the Weekly Standard.

Sen. Christopher J. Dodd (D-Conn.) said it is a mistake to contend, as the Republicans are doing, that the Democrats have been captured by left-wing, antiwar activists, saying the Connecticut race most of all reflects discontent with Bush rather than an ideological awakening. "This is really about Bush," he said. "It's deeper than an antiwar thing."

Still, many party moderates say they see worrisome parallels to what happened to the Democrats during Vietnam, when they opposed an unpopular war but paid a price politically for years after because of a perception the party was too dovish on national security.

"Candidates know they cannot appease [antiwar] activists if they are going to run winning national campaigns," said Will Marshall, president of the centrist Progressive Policy Institute. "It will intensify the tension inside the Democratic coalition as we head into two critical elections."

But leaders of the net-roots activists, and some party strategists, argue that as antiwar sentiment spreads Democrats stand to gain politically by aggressively challenging Bush's war policies. Parallels to Vietnam are inaccurate, they say, because of the nature of an Iraq war that has become a low-level sectarian civil war.

"If Democrats were winning elections, that prescription would be something worth listening to," said Tom Matzzie, Washington director of MoveOn.org, said in response to the party's moderate wing. "That's the prescription people have been giving us, and we've been losing elections."

With much of the establishment backing Lieberman, Lamont initially built his campaign with the support of grass-roots activists disaffected with the incumbent and the president. Liberal bloggers around the country promoted his candidacy, helping to raise his profile while attacking Lieberman and attracting money (although Lamont's personal fortune has financed most of his campaign). They helped give voice to rank-and-file Democrats furious with Bush and frustrated by what they regard as cautious and ineffective party leadership in Washington, as well as to some local elected officials angry with Lieberman.

Lieberman enjoys the support of the party's national leadership, along with most of organized labor and key constituency groups. Former president Bill Clinton came here two weeks ago to campaign for Lieberman, vouching for his party bona fides and urging Democrats to put aside differences on the war. Hillary Clinton has said she wants Lieberman to win. Senate Democratic leaders back his candidacy and months ago urged MoveOn officials to stay out of the primary.

Come Tuesday night, if Lamont wins the primary, they will be forced to shift allegiance. Both Clintons have said they will support the winner of the primary, and other party officials plan to do the same.

Lieberman, however, has said that if he loses, he intends to run as an independent in the general election against Lamont and Republican nominee Alan Schlesinger. Party officials will have to decide whether to press him to abandon those plans and, if he declines, how strongly they will get behind Lamont's candidacy. Democrats hope to pick up three vulnerable Republican-held House seats in November and do not want a distracting Lieberman-Lamont general election battle to get in the way of those campaigns.

Rep. Rahm Emanuel (Ill.), chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, said Friday he is not worried about the fallout from the Senate primary on House races, arguing that the message from Connecticut is that anyone supporting Bush's war policies is in deep trouble. "What's playing out here is that being a rubber stamp for George Bush is politically dangerous to life-threatening," he said.

Republican pollster Bill McInturff sees the Connecticut Senate race as critically important in shaping the midterm campaigns. "This will embolden Democrats around the country," he said. "I think that this primary in its own way sets off a chain of events that makes the fall elections very quickly a debate that could be framed as a [Democratic] timeline [for withdrawing U.S. forces] versus Republicans supporting a longer-term solution."

All of that may bode well for the Democrats, given sentiment about the war. As Democratic pollster Peter Hart put it: "What [Connecticut] tells us about the fall is something I think we've known all along, and that is the status quo in Iraq is unacceptable. It's unacceptable to Democratic primary voters, it's unacceptable to independents and it's unacceptable to a large minority of Republicans. Iraq is the number one issue and the message is exceptionally simple: We cannot abide the status quo."

Connecticut is a liberal, Democratic-leaning state, by no means a reflection of the rest of the country. Still, politicians in both parties will react if Lieberman loses. "I think that the overriding pressure on people in 2007-2008 in both parties quite frankly will be the pressure to be credible on what comes next and how we get out," Democratic strategist Anita Dunn said.

Borosage, who has battled moderates in the party for years, offered a word of caution for Democratic opponents of the war, noting that while public opinion is with the Democrats, Republicans have been successful in portraying their opponents as weak. Without a muscular alternative to Bush's policies, he said, "I think the debate this fall is going to be a difficult debate, even with the war unpopular."
© 2006 The Washington Post Company
Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.
by lwelsch (LWelsch@gmail.com) on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 01:47:52 AM EDT http://home.comcast.net/~PoliticalThoughts/index.html

------------------------------------------------------------
The people and their votes are such an inconvenience to the powers that be.

Once elected these congress critters now court the big money via lobbyists.  These lobbyists work for corporate america and it is corporate american which runs the show.  Congress critters do their bidding.

Along the way, democrats will remember that they are the party of labor and not capital and so try to pass some measures which benefit PEOPLE as opposed to corporate interests and the "property/investor" class.  Their metrics is what is good for business... not what is good for the people.

A whole back they used to say business means jobs for americans.. war is good for the economy cos it creates jobs.  This is hardly true today as everything is outsourced and corporations and their owners are their solely to make profit.  They don't work for their money... it is all bloated compensation packages, stocks and perks...  the people work for a wage, a salary.. not the leaders of industry.

If enough people are angry enough and decide to vote and there is someone who manages to get far enough in the system and advocate for the people and get his name on some ballot... they just might (probably will) get elected.  The last chance is to steal elections and this, we now know is not past them.

If the grass roots can rise up and get some ethical people in there and change the rotten system and lock out the corporations and the military from stealing all the people's treasure... we might have something which resembles a democracy...   This scares them because they have so much power and control they never thought they might see an end to the party.

Ned Lamont is pretty mainstream as far as politics goes, but he is an outsider and he is getting support from the people this is a coming threat to the corporate power elite and their media mouthpieces and sympathizers.  There are many enemies and most of them are right here and their names end in Inc... and that includes those who own shares... their enablers.

Capitalism may be in the end stage where unfettered greed consumes it like a cancer from within.  What's next?  Authoritarianism or something more enlightened?

by DefJef on Mon Aug 7th, 2006 at 01:35:57 PM EDT
[ Parent ]

------------------------------------------------------------
Authoritarianism is not a replacement for capitalism at all since it is frequently the political enforcement for the capitalist economy.
Peacedog
by Peacedog (louisrue@charter.net) on Mon Aug 7th, 2006 at 07:30:41 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
------------------------------------------------------------
Let's Start Talking By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF As I see it, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is shooting Israel and America in the feet (and Lebanon in the stomach) each day that he continues his onslaught, with President Bush enthusiastically providing the ammunition. But since discussions of the Middle East usually involve people shouting past each other, let me stop harrumphing and try to address head-on the arguments of the many readers who disagree. It's a tragedy that Lebanese children are dying, but it would be crazy to accept a cease-fire now. That would hand Hezbollah a huge victory and return the Middle East to the impossible situation of the last few years, with rockets still raining down on northern Israel. So the U.S. has to give Israel space to get this job done. Look at the results so far with the job half done: some 600 dead Lebanese, and scores of dead Israelis; Hezbollah's rise to heroic status; the strengthening of Syria's hard-line regime; the weakening of moderates like King Abdullah of Jordan; a boost for Shiite militants in Iraq and around the region; the marginalization of Lebanon's democracy movement; and the further trashing of America's reputation around the world. Lebanese, instead of turning on Hezbollah, are rallying around it. A poll by the Beirut Center for Research and Information found that 87 percent of those surveyed supported Hezbollah's battles with Israel. That included 80 percent of Lebanese Christians surveyed. So with those results after more than three weeks, why will it be any different in another couple of weeks? It is, of course, possible that bunker-buster bombs could decapitate Hezbollah's leadership. But Israel didn't achieve a victory in the 18 years before it withdrew from Lebanon in 2000, so it's time to move toward a cease-fire -- not only to save Lebanese lives but also to get on with the business of a diplomatic solution. There may be a diplomatic solution, but first we have to clear out Hezbollah from southern Lebanon. Then an international force can go in as a buffer, and Israel will be delighted to pull out. It's fine to talk about an international force, but no country will send troops if Hezbollah objects. Otherwise, those troops will be targets, as they were in 1983. And Hezbollah and Syria won't approve unless there is some larger agreement between Israel and Lebanon -- and some benefit to Syria as well. How can one negotiate with those who would destroy you? Israel tried restraint and Hezbollah used the time to build up its arsenal. President Bush is right about one thing: We need to do more than restore the prewar situation on the Israeli-Lebanese border. There is also an opportunity here -- to achieve a landmark Lebanon-Israel peace deal. Edward Walker, former ambassador to Israel and former assistant secretary of state for the region, told me he thought a long-term settlement was plausible (although he acknowledged that he was also the optimistic boy who expected a pony every Christmas). France is showing leadership in pressing for such a lasting deal, and Mr. Bush should push that diplomatic effort with every administration sinew. Terms of a genuine settlement might involve an exchange of prisoners, Israel giving up the Shebaa Farms area (if not to Lebanon, then to an international force), and an Israeli promise not to breach Lebanese territory or airspace unless attacked. Hezbollah would commit to becoming a purely political force and to dismantling its militia, with its weaponry going to the Lebanese armed forces. Israel would resume talks with Syria on the Golan Heights, the U.S. would resume contact with Syria, and Syria would agree to stop supplying weaponry to Hezbollah (or allowing it in from Iran). Syria and Hezbollah would then pledge cooperation with a robust international buffer force along the border. Some of this may have to come in stages: for example, with Hezbollah first leaving the border area and then giving up its weaponry. Granted, it's odd for Israel to hand over Shebaa Farms to Lebanon, since old maps show pretty clearly that it was Syrian. But Syria, seeking to make mischief, has said that it is Lebanese, and it certainly is not Israeli. Israel would worry that such a settlement would be seen as rewarding Hezbollah and would encourage other militant groups. That's a legitimate concern. But such moves would also remove the raison d'être for Hezbollah's militia, and they are probably the price for achieving calm in northern Israel. So let's stop the killing and start the talking. Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company
Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.
by lwelsch (LWelsch@gmail.com) on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 01:51:08 AM EDT http://home.comcast.net/~PoliticalThoughts/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Let's Start Talking
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

As I see it, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is shooting Israel and America in the feet (and Lebanon in the stomach) each day that he continues his onslaught, with President Bush enthusiastically providing the ammunition.

But since discussions of the Middle East usually involve people shouting past each other, let me stop harrumphing and try to address head-on the arguments of the many readers who disagree.

It's a tragedy that Lebanese children are dying, but it would be crazy to accept a cease-fire now. That would hand Hezbollah a huge victory and return the Middle East to the impossible situation of the last few years, with rockets still raining down on northern Israel. So the U.S. has to give Israel space to get this job done.

Look at the results so far with the job half done: some 600 dead Lebanese, and scores of dead Israelis; Hezbollah's rise to heroic status; the strengthening of Syria's hard-line regime; the weakening of moderates like King Abdullah of Jordan; a boost for Shiite militants in Iraq and around the region; the marginalization of Lebanon's democracy movement; and the further trashing of America's reputation around the world.

Lebanese, instead of turning on Hezbollah, are rallying around it. A poll by the Beirut Center for Research and Information found that 87 percent of those surveyed supported Hezbollah's battles with Israel. That included 80 percent of Lebanese Christians surveyed.

So with those results after more than three weeks, why will it be any different in another couple of weeks?

It is, of course, possible that bunker-buster bombs could decapitate Hezbollah's leadership. But Israel didn't achieve a victory in the 18 years before it withdrew from Lebanon in 2000, so it's time to move toward a cease-fire -- not only to save Lebanese lives but also to get on with the business of a diplomatic solution.

There may be a diplomatic solution, but first we have to clear out Hezbollah from southern Lebanon. Then an international force can go in as a buffer, and Israel will be delighted to pull out.

It's fine to talk about an international force, but no country will send troops if Hezbollah objects. Otherwise, those troops will be targets, as they were in 1983. And Hezbollah and Syria won't approve unless there is some larger agreement between Israel and Lebanon -- and some benefit to Syria as well.

How can one negotiate with those who would destroy you? Israel tried restraint and Hezbollah used the time to build up its arsenal.

President Bush is right about one thing: We need to do more than restore the prewar situation on the Israeli-Lebanese border. There is also an opportunity here -- to achieve a landmark Lebanon-Israel peace deal.

Edward Walker, former ambassador to Israel and former assistant secretary of state for the region, told me he thought a long-term settlement was plausible (although he acknowledged that he was also the optimistic boy who expected a pony every Christmas). France is showing leadership in pressing for such a lasting deal, and Mr. Bush should push that diplomatic effort with every administration sinew.

Terms of a genuine settlement might involve an exchange of prisoners, Israel giving up the Shebaa Farms area (if not to Lebanon, then to an international force), and an Israeli promise not to breach Lebanese territory or airspace unless attacked. Hezbollah would commit to becoming a purely political force and to dismantling its militia, with its weaponry going to the Lebanese armed forces. Israel would resume talks with Syria on the Golan Heights, the U.S. would resume contact with Syria, and Syria would agree to stop supplying weaponry to Hezbollah (or allowing it in from Iran). Syria and Hezbollah would then pledge cooperation with a robust international buffer force along the border. Some of this may have to come in stages: for example, with Hezbollah first leaving the border area and then giving up its weaponry.

Granted, it's odd for Israel to hand over Shebaa Farms to Lebanon, since old maps show pretty clearly that it was Syrian. But Syria, seeking to make mischief, has said that it is Lebanese, and it certainly is not Israeli.

Israel would worry that such a settlement would be seen as rewarding Hezbollah and would encourage other militant groups. That's a legitimate concern. But such moves would also remove the raison d'être for Hezbollah's militia, and they are probably the price for achieving calm in northern Israel. So let's stop the killing and start the talking.

Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company
Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.
by lwelsch (LWelsch@gmail.com) on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 01:51:33 AM EDT http://home.comcast.net/~PoliticalThoughts/index.html

------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Fisk: This draft shows who is running America's policy... Israel

Robert Fisk
Published: 07 August 2006
So the great and the good on the East River laboured at the United Nations Security Council - and brought forth a lemon. You could almost hear the Lebanese groan at this draft resolution, a document of such bias and mendacity that a close Lebanese friend read carefully through it yesterday, cursed and uttered the immortal question: "Don't these bastards learn anything from history?"

And there it all was again, the warmed-up peace proposals of Israel's 1982 invasion, full of buffer zones and disarmament and "strict respect by all parties" - a rousing chortle here, no doubt, from Hizbollah members - and the need for Lebanese sovereignty. It didn't even demand the withdrawal of Israeli forces, a point that Walid Moallem, Syria's Foreign Minister - and the man the Americans will eventually have to negotiate with - seized upon with more than alacrity. It was a dead UN resolution without a total Israeli retreat, he said on a strategic trip to Beirut.

A close analysis of the American-French draft - the fingerprints of John Bolton, the US ambassador to the UN, were almost smudging the paragraphs - showed just who is running Washington's Middle East policy: Israel. And one wondered how even Tony Blair would want to associate himself with this nonsense. It made no reference to the obscenely disproportionate violence employed by Israel - just a sleek reference to "hundreds of deaths and injuries on both sides" - and it made only passing reference to Hizbollah's demand that it would only release the two Israeli soldiers it captured on 12 July in return for Lebanese and other Arab prisoners in Israeli jails.

The Security Council said it was "mindful of the sensitivity of the issue of prisoners and encouraging the efforts aimed at settling the issue [sic] of the Lebanese prisoners detained in Israel". I bet Hizbollah were impressed by the "mindful" bit, not to mention the "sensitivity" and the soft, slippery word "settle" - an issue which can be "settled" in maybe 20 years' time. Then came the real coup de grâce. A demand for the "total cessation by Hizbollah of all attacks" and the "immediate cessation" by Israel of "all offensive military operations". Bit of a problem there, as Hizbollah spotted at once. They have to lay down their arms.

Had the council demanded an immediate resolution on the future of the Shebaa farms, the Israeli-occupied territory which once belonged to mandate Lebanon - and for whose "liberation" the Hizbollah have fought - the whole fandango might have stood a chance. After all, Shebaa is the only raison d'être that the Hizbollah can produce for continuing their reckless, ruthless, illegal war across the UN blue line in southern Lebanon. But the UN document wished only to see a delineation of Lebanon's borders "including in the Shebaa farms area". There was even a wonderful paragraph - Number 9 for aficionados of UN bumf - which "calls on all parties to co-operate ... with the Security Council". So the Hizbollah are to co-operate, are they, with the austere diplomats of this august and wise body? Isn't that exalting a guerrilla army a little bit more upmarket than it deserves?

No one was fooled and few disagreed with Syria's Walid Moallem when he said the UN's draft resolution was "a recipe for continuing the war". As both the Hizbollah and the Israelis did yesterday, the former killing 13 Israelis and the latter bombing houses in Ansar - once an Israeli POW camp - which destroyed five more Lebanese civilian lives. Mohamed Fneish, a Hizbollah government minister - who scarcely represents all Lebanese but talks as if he does - thundered away about how "we" [presumably the Hizbollah, rather than the Lebanese] will abide by it [the resolution] on condition that no Israeli soldiers remains inside Lebanese land."

There were more Israeli air attacks on Beirut's southern suburbs yesterday - though heaven knows what is left there to destroy - ensuring that even more Shia Muslim civilians will remain refugees. Fearful that the Israelis will bomb their trucks and claim they were carrying missiles, the garbage collectors of this city have abandoned their vehicles and the familiar 1982 stench of burning rubbish now drifts through the evening streets. Petrol is now so scarce that a tank-full yesterday cost £250.

About the only gift to Lebanon in the UN resolution was the expressed need to provide the UN with remaining Israeli maps of landmines in Lebanon. But Israel has again dropped lethal ordnance all over southern Lebanon. Oh yes, and as usual, the UN draft on these ambitious, hopelessly conceived ideas "decides to remain actively seized of the matter". You bet it does. And so, as they say, the war goes on.

What the UN wants...

  • A full cessation of hostilities based upon, in particular, the cessation by Hizbollah of all attacks and the cessation by Israel of all offensive military operations;

  • Israel and Lebanon to support a permanent ceasefire and a long-term solution based on the following principles and elements:

  • Strict respect by all parties for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Israel and Lebanon;

  • Full respect for the Blue Line by both parties;

  • Delineation of the international borders of Lebanon, especially in those areas where the border is disputed or uncertain, including in the Shebaa farms area;

  • Security arrangements to prevent the resumption of hostilities, including the establishment between the Blue Line and the Litani river of an area free of any armed personnel, assets and weapons other than those of the Lebanese armed and security forces, and of UN-mandated international forces;

  • Full implementation of the relevant provisions ... that require the disarmament of all armed groups in Lebanon;

  • Deployment of an international force in Lebanon;

  • The Secretary General to develop, in liaison with key international actors and the concerned parties, proposals to implement the relevant provisions ... and to present those proposals to the Security Council within 30 days;

  • The UN Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL), upon cessation of hostilities, to monitor its implementation and extend assistance to ensure humanitarian access to civilians and the safe return of displaced persons;

  • The government of Lebanon to ensure arms or related material are not imported into Lebanon without its consent and requests UNIFIL, conditions permitting, to assist the government of Lebanon at its request;

  • The Secretary-General to report to the Council within one week on the implementation and provide any relevant information in light of the Council's intention to adopt a further resolution.

So the great and the good on the East River laboured at the United Nations Security Council - and brought forth a lemon. You could almost hear the Lebanese groan at this draft resolution, a document of such bias and mendacity that a close Lebanese friend read carefully through it yesterday, cursed and uttered the immortal question: "Don't these bastards learn anything from history?"

And there it all was again, the warmed-up peace proposals of Israel's 1982 invasion, full of buffer zones and disarmament and "strict respect by all parties" - a rousing chortle here, no doubt, from Hizbollah members - and the need for Lebanese sovereignty. It didn't even demand the withdrawal of Israeli forces, a point that Walid Moallem, Syria's Foreign Minister - and the man the Americans will eventually have to negotiate with - seized upon with more than alacrity. It was a dead UN resolution without a total Israeli retreat, he said on a strategic trip to Beirut.

A close analysis of the American-French draft - the fingerprints of John Bolton, the US ambassador to the UN, were almost smudging the paragraphs - showed just who is running Washington's Middle East policy: Israel. And one wondered how even Tony Blair would want to associate himself with this nonsense. It made no reference to the obscenely disproportionate violence employed by Israel - just a sleek reference to "hundreds of deaths and injuries on both sides" - and it made only passing reference to Hizbollah's demand that it would only release the two Israeli soldiers it captured on 12 July in return for Lebanese and other Arab prisoners in Israeli jails.

The Security Council said it was "mindful of the sensitivity of the issue of prisoners and encouraging the efforts aimed at settling the issue [sic] of the Lebanese prisoners detained in Israel". I bet Hizbollah were impressed by the "mindful" bit, not to mention the "sensitivity" and the soft, slippery word "settle" - an issue which can be "settled" in maybe 20 years' time. Then came the real coup de grâce. A demand for the "total cessation by Hizbollah of all attacks" and the "immediate cessation" by Israel of "all offensive military operations". Bit of a problem there, as Hizbollah spotted at once. They have to lay down their arms.

Had the council demanded an immediate resolution on the future of the Shebaa farms, the Israeli-occupied territory which once belonged to mandate Lebanon - and for whose "liberation" the Hizbollah have fought - the whole fandango might have stood a chance. After all, Shebaa is the only raison d'être that the Hizbollah can produce for continuing their reckless, ruthless, illegal war across the UN blue line in southern Lebanon. But the UN document wished only to see a delineation of Lebanon's borders "including in the Shebaa farms area". There was even a wonderful paragraph - Number 9 for aficionados of UN bumf - which "calls on all parties to co-operate ... with the Security Council". So the Hizbollah are to co-operate, are they, with the austere diplomats of this august and wise body? Isn't that exalting a guerrilla army a little bit more upmarket than it deserves?

No one was fooled and few disagreed with Syria's Walid Moallem when he said the UN's draft resolution was "a recipe for continuing the war". As both the Hizbollah and the Israelis did yesterday, the former killing 13 Israelis and the latter bombing houses in Ansar - once an Israeli POW camp - which destroyed five more Lebanese civilian lives. Mohamed Fneish, a Hizbollah government minister - who scarcely represents all Lebanese but talks as if he does - thundered away about how "we" [presumably the Hizbollah, rather than the Lebanese] will abide by it [the resolution] on condition that no Israeli soldiers remains inside Lebanese land."

There were more Israeli air attacks on Beirut's southern suburbs yesterday - though heaven knows what is left there to destroy - ensuring that even more Shia Muslim civilians will remain refugees. Fearful that the Israelis will bomb their trucks and claim they were carrying missiles, the garbage collectors of this city have abandoned their vehicles and the familiar 1982 stench of burning rubbish now drifts through the evening streets. Petrol is now so scarce that a tank-full yesterday cost £250.

About the only gift to Lebanon in the UN resolution was the expressed need to provide the UN with remaining Israeli maps of landmines in Lebanon. But Israel has again dropped lethal ordnance all over southern Lebanon. Oh yes, and as usual, the UN draft on these ambitious, hopelessly conceived ideas "decides to remain actively seized of the matter". You bet it does. And so, as they say, the war goes on.

What the UN wants...

  • A full cessation of hostilities based upon, in particular, the cessation by Hizbollah of all attacks and the cessation by Israel of all offensive military operations;

  • Israel and Lebanon to support a permanent ceasefire and a long-term solution based on the following principles and elements:

  • Strict respect by all parties for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Israel and Lebanon;

  • Full respect for the Blue Line by both parties;

  • Delineation of the international borders of Lebanon, especially in those areas where the border is disputed or uncertain, including in the Shebaa farms area;

  • Security arrangements to prevent the resumption of hostilities, including the establishment between the Blue Line and the Litani river of an area free of any armed personnel, assets and weapons other than those of the Lebanese armed and security forces, and of UN-mandated international forces;

  • Full implementation of the relevant provisions ... that require the disarmament of all armed groups in Lebanon;

  • Deployment of an international force in Lebanon;

  • The Secretary General to develop, in liaison with key international actors and the concerned parties, proposals to implement the relevant provisions ... and to present those proposals to the Security Council within 30 days;

  • The UN Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL), upon cessation of hostilities, to monitor its implementation and extend assistance to ensure humanitarian access to civilians and the safe return of displaced persons;

  • The government of Lebanon to ensure arms or related material are not imported into Lebanon without its consent and requests UNIFIL, conditions permitting, to assist the government of Lebanon at its request;

  • The Secretary-General to report to the Council within one week on the implementation and provide any relevant information in light of the Council's intention to adopt a further resolution.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article1217413.ece
Raised eyebrows!
by New Actor (New Actor) on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 08:09:44 PM EDT
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The problem isn't the cruddy "solution" the UN came up with. The problem is that regardless of whatever the UN comes up with, it is a paper tiger that does not have the will or the willingness to call for resources sufficient to enforce anything.

Really, I don't think the UN ought to have much of a say here anyway. We've seen 60 years of UN resolutions and look where they've got us. Solutions for the crisis can't be imposed from the outside. They have to be found by mutual agreement of the warring parties and then supported by the world's other nations so that the agreements stick.

That's something no nation or organization outside the area seems to have had the cojones to do
Falseness lasts an hour, and truth lasts till the end of time. -- Arabic proverb
by decampe (ka_the_appalling@yahoo.com) on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 10:08:49 PM EDT
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"The problem is that regardless of whatever the UN comes up with, it is a paper tiger that does not have the will or the willingness to call for resources sufficient to enforce anything."

I disagree.  Iran, Hezbollah and Lebanon have all offered everything that could be asked and been ignored or refused by Buah &/or Israel.  In 2003 Iran offered to agree to inspection protocols with the IAEA so  tight cheating would be impossible - conditions the US refuses; they also offered to support the 2002 Arab peace initiative which included peace with Israel, and to end it's support of Hezbollah - if Israel agreed to abide by UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338 about Palestine. These offers were repeated June 2006.

No response.

A UN vote on 4/11/2004 that would place ALL fissile material under control of th IAEA was accepted by 147 nations, including Iran.  The US cast the only "no" vote; Israel and the UK abstained.

None of this was reported in the US.  There's more like this, including the carefully edited demonizing of Iran by us and the continued provocation of Hezbollah by Israel, but it comes down to this: it's abvious that Bush wants WAR, period.  How can we take over the huge reserves of oil in Iran as well as gain more permanent bases from which to control the Middle East, or get the Last War rolling so Jesus can come back, and how can Israel get it's original borders back if there's no war?  Bottom line: there's NOTHING Iran can do but allow us to take over the country that will avert war; anything else will be ignored, refused or lied about.  Hezbollah can a) all die, or b) all move somewhere else - like another planet; otherwise they're stuck with war with Israel, backed by us.

That's the plan.

Ian
My Personal Blog is at: http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/ian_macleod/ Stop in! Illegitimis non carborundum!
by Ian MacLeod (heyokat@gmail.com) on Sat Aug 12th, 2006 at 01:34:35 PM EDT http://www.angelfire.com/or/Heyokat/index.html
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Let's not and say we did!
"For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead." Thomas Jefferson
by lizbitchwitch (saylinbackagin@yahoo.com) on Tue Aug 8th, 2006 at 01:17:24 AM EDT
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August 4, 2006
Hezbollah's Other War
By MICHAEL YOUNG

(Note: This article will appear in the August 13 issue of The Times Magazine.)

One evening earlier this summer, Lebanon's most popular satire show, ``Bas Mat Watan,'' broadcast a sketch showing an ``interview'' with Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah's leader and secretary general. ``Nasrallah'' was asked whether his party would surrender its weapons. He answered that it would, but first several conditions had to be met: there was that woman in Australia, whose land was being encroached upon by Jewish neighbors; then there was the baker in the United States, whose bakery the Jews wanted to take over. The joke was obvious: there were an infinite number of reasons why Hezbollah would never agree to lay down its weapons and become one political party among others.

But it was the rapid reaction to the satiric sketch that sent the more disquieting message. That very night, angry supporters of Hezbollah closed the airport road with burning tires -- a warning that they could block at will the main access point in and out of the country -- and marched on mainly Sunni, Druse and Christian quarters in Beirut. In a Christian neighborhood, they clashed with the son of a former president and his comrades, and several youths were taken to hospital.

The leaders of Hezbollah defended these actions, explaining that they were the spontaneous emotional res